Any Orthodox Jews here?

[Alambil]

I have a question if you don't mind?

Anna - that's quite unusual for moroccan jews - its usually the chassidim that do that although quite why is a bit unknown. I'm sure one of their Rabbis could explain the principle behind shaving the hair and i'm sure that they keep their wig on at all times apart from in bed sleeping but its not something embraaced by all jews and not by my community.

here in manchester i ofte see men dresed in the very traditional long black coat, big black hat combo. complete with payess.

is that a sect of judaism? or is it just a way of showing how devout they are?

Thanks. We aren't at all close to the family (and they all live in Switzerland these days) so cannot ask - just curious . My partner's friends are almost all 100% Jewish but very assimilated - Alsatian Ashkenazy Jews who think of themselves as the crème de la crème of French Judaism and dissociate themselves from practices that mark themselves out easily from the rest of the bourgeoisie, so much so that they seem to know very little indeed about their own religion.

You're welcome Christie. Anna - are you in France then? Unfortunately what you are describing is very common everywhere - jewish people leaving their religion and in so doing looking down on those still observing their religion. Perhaps it is the same in other cultures/religioins - i don't know.

mildmanneredstalker - what a name! Yes it is a strand of judaism called chassidim - not a sect as such as that implies strangeness in some way but the dress origiinates from eastern europe some 300 yrs back and is preserved by way of preserving chassidic jews as separate to everyone else.

and what is the difference between chassidism and 'normal' judaism?

Thanks for the answer to my question. V. interesting thread.

DH is of Polish origin and definitely not a slavic type. I wonder about the mixture of blood in his veins. Despite the strong strand of anti-semitism, Poland was for a long time a truly multicultural country with a thriving interelation of communities. Great book on this by Eva Hoffman, called Shtetl.

So, anyway, I like to think of my DCs as having a little Jewishness in their ancestry, as well as Slavs, Mongol hordes, English and lord knows what.

lisalisa - Yes, I live in Paris. I know what you mean about people "leaving their religion and then looking down on those who practice it" but I wouldn't say that was what I was talking about. For example, in my partner's circles, all the boys do their Bar Mitzvah in a big way (much bigger, in fact, that when my partner was a child when very low-key was de rigueur). All the Jewish families know one another through the generations and all get together for all the Jewish festivals - it's very important to them. They all feel very Jewish indeed. But they want to live, and earn a good wage, in the highly secular society (far more so than England) that is France. And to do so, they must, outwardly, behave like any old French person.

Anna, I like that about France -that public life is secular and religion is a private/ family (not state) matter.

It freaks me out to think that my children will do RE at school. It seems wrong to me.

malfoy - I know both "systems" - I was at school in England as a child, in a private school with a religious domination and later at a secondary school where religious assembly and RE classes were compulsory. And then I went to a French-style school (though not in France) where religious education was token. And now I have stepchildren and a daughter of my own in the French school system, and a partner who has grown up with a strong communitarian Jewish heritage.

There are pros and cons to both systems. It is quite hard, to my mind, to fully integrate the concept of moral dilemma (and aren't we face with that every day, and many times a day) without some kind of religious teaching.

My cousins, who are Orthodox Jews had the same dilemma. Two of their children are hyper intelligent, and the question was whether to take them out of their Jewish (Hebrew?) School and put them into a school more catered for their academical minds?

In the end they chose the academic school, but they also followed a rigorous schedule for their Hebrew lessons.

getting the balance right is tricky.

That's interesting anna and also ilovemydog - would love to know which shcool they chose instead ilovemydog - if they are in london I would guess city or habs?

Lisalisa - they're in Beverly Hills, but I don't think that exposure to a religion that isn't your own should pose a problem...

I went to a Catholic all girls school and we did old testament, new testament, world religions and then had to do a comparative study - think mine was the similarities of Judiasm and Islam.

ilovemydog - no cricket yarmulkes and the shop isn't getting any in for New Year

I tried a contact that i use for work but unless you want a minimum of 60 yarmulkes (!) will have to leave it

sorry ...

Ruby thank you so very much for checking yet again! I am truly grateful. My cousin, I think I've mentioned, just had his Bar Mitzvah, and did most of the Torah readings himself in Hebrew. Everyone was just so proud (and some of the family aren't even Jewish!). He lives in Beverly Hills, so isn't exactly on the poverty line. But his Bar Mitzvah wasn't over the top. Just close friends and family.

I wanted to get him something from the UK, so thanks again for having a look.