Faith and the Unease of Christian Mission Work

[motheroreily]

I've been thinking a lot about mission work and the idea of converting people from other religions and it makes me feel uncomfortable. I'm not sure why, but something about it doesn’t sit right with me.

Maybe it’s the idea of approaching someone with the assumption that their beliefs are "wrong" or need changing.

Have you ever felt this way? How do you reconcile faith and respecting others' beliefs?

I agree with @myplace but they've worded it better than me I think.

I agree with you @motheroreily

I had an "Evangelical Phase" to my faith journey and during that time I did take part in mission activities to secular communities within the uk. At the time I believed that what we were doing was equivalent to firefighters pulling people out of a burning building (except obvs "not by our power but by the Lord's") to pull them off their pathway towards Hell.

My faith has changed a lot since then. And I heartily recommend Brian McLaren's book "Do I stay Christian" for anyone whose faith position changes dramatically during their journey. These days I'm happy to say "if Hell exists it is empty" because the power of God to redeem and heal and forgive is beyond all human understanding, so in that context the kind of evangelism I used to participate in would be entirely inappropriate.

The good news I would preach if called upon would simply be "you are already saved. You are already free" but I agree it's not appropriate to pull someone who is on their own pathway to the divine through a different path off that path and onto mine.

I think you're right to feel uncomfortable, it does smack of 'I know better than you.'
Remember the guy who went to convert the Sentinelese tribe in the Indian Ocean a few years back and was killed? The American Evangelicals were out in force on Twitter saying he'd done the right thing - even though he went to the island illegally - as the Sentinelese were heathens etc and I thought to myself how arrogant these Evangelicals were.

You’re quite right to feel uncomfortable, OP. Honour it and let others find their own paths.

Oh.

I don’t think I criticised them. I said they appeared to have no insight into the potentially deadly repercussions of their actions.

I'm not interested in defending my position on this.

It’s an arrogant and selfish practice, to push your beliefs onto someone else who doesn’t approach you to ask about it first, particularly those people who are vulnerable.

To treat an institution with such an abhorrent historical and current culture of abuse and secrecy with reverence and to try and scare people into become complicit with that whilst protecting abusers is abhorrent. And yet from what I can see, according to the bible, you’re alright if you believe and you’ll go to heaven regardless of the nasty, illegal and dishonest behaviours you’ve demonstrated in your life.

I respectfully disagree, and this is why. Consider this, why did God need to send His only Son to die for our sins, because of our disobedience? Why did Jesus need to suffer a horrible death by taking on all our sins, when He himself was sinless? Why did He need to do any of that if God is fine with people from other faiths and belief systems? God could have avoided sending His son to die altogether if this was true.

We don't worship the same God. The Christian God is a Trinity, none of the other 'gods' are. God does love us all but He is also a just god and he is a jealous God who hates sin and false idols. Read the Old Testament if you want to know his character. He is the same God now as He was then, He is unchanging. There is no such thing as a 'good person'. We are all sinful by nature as we have all sinned and fallen away from God. The only way back, the ONLY way back, is via the blood of Jesus. I can't stress how important it is to grasp this, and that other faiths do have this.

Jesus said (John 10:9) "I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture."

(John 3:16) For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

@AlteredStater I'm not going to get into a lengthy debate on this because I learned decades ago that there's really no point engaging with people's beliefs on the internet. So if this doesn't make sense to you that's ok, I won't be arguing further.

However your concept of the power and love and grace of God is so much smaller than mine, and I am sure that mine is yet smaller than His. Yes Jesus's incarnation and sacrifice and death were the vital action to bring redemption to this fallen world. I just don't believe that conversion to Christianity during ones lifetime is required to access that redemption. I believe that every soul will eventually be washed clean in that blood, not just those whose life circumstances were fortunate enough that they were able to hear and respond positively to the Good News within their lifetime.

For just one of a myriad of examples, consider the position of those tragically many people whose experience of Christianity and the church has been one of pain, abuse of power and sexual abuse. eg those growing up in orphanges and boarding schools with padophile priests - yes they have heard the "Gospel" but it is intrinsically associated with that abuse. If for one such, it would be impossible for them to accept without an intervention of miraculous healing from God that most never recieve, then I can't believe that dooms them, I have to believe they can access that redemption after death.

Jesus gave a command to make disciples of all nations but that could mean a representative sample from each nation, being like salt or leven (that would be less than 1%) to keep alive the Good News that All are Saved, and that salvation has been brought by Him. The fact that all who truly believe are saved does not intrinsically imply the opposite for those who don't, and is not incompatible with an understanding that everyone else is also on a path to the same eventual destination. Each person's path will be unique to them and will not fall short on repentance and justice but is not limited to what your mortal brain can imagine.

Powerful post @RatedDoingMagic , thank you.

I also think of people with learning disabilities, or other barriers to comprehending theology. Obviously they are not excluded by their inability to access doctrine. So how can the detail of that doctrine be important? Jesus died for everyone, not just the ones who have been fortunate enough to hear and understand the gospel.

It’s very human to try and draw precise lines around things and define what is and isn’t, who is right and who is wrong. Who is saved and who is not. And the truth of the scriptures is not in specific words, which have been remembered , recorded, copied, re copied and translated more times than we can imagine. There is limited value in analysing men’s words. Expert theologians whose life work has been studying such detail, cannot agree on its meaning. So that cannot be Truth.

I was thinking sadly on Simeon’s words yesterday, about the consolation of Israel. How sad it is that we are still living in so fallen a world.

Thank you @@RatedDoingMagic
I found your post very comforting.

It always takes an extraordinary, divine miracle to save a sinner.

Our hearts are naturally evil and opposed to God. When he transforms our spiritually dead hearts into new, repentant hearts which love him and want to obey him, that's a miracle that takes the same power which raised Jesus from the dead.

Humanly it's easy to think that it's somehow easier for God to save a "nice" person than a rapist, or easier for God to save someone who's been abused by a Muslim or atheist than someone who was abused by someone pretending to be a Christian and involved in or even leading a church. But I think that might be because we underestimate how far even the nice people are from being holy, and how much of a miracle it takes to save any one of us.

The Bible tells Christians to share the gospel & this is mission work. Of course forced conversion, harassment etc is wrong. But sharing your faith so that everybody has the opportunity to consider Jesus is loving. And it means that they will be without excuse on judgment day because they heard & rejected it.

The path is wide that leads to destruction and many people want to follow the wide path because it seems to have room for everyone. The path is narrow that leads to salvation and Jesus is the only way.

PP are absolutely able to have their opinions and I'm not trying to take that away from them. However, if a person believes in the Christian God (the God of the Bible, rather than a god of their own imaginations), they will believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation and without him all are condemned (because this is what the Bible teaches).
and therefore out of love for their fellow humans will want to evangelise (spread the gospel, not convert people which is what the Holy Spirit does).

@myplace I also think of people with learning disabilities, or other barriers to comprehending theology. Obviously they are not excluded by their inability to access doctrine. So how can the detail of that doctrine be important? Jesus died for everyone, not just the ones who have been fortunate enough to hear and understand the gospel.

It's not important to understand theology in order to be saved, look at the example of the thief crucified next to Jesus - he was saved by belief alone.

God in His wisdom knows who has consciously rejected Him, and why. If someone does not possess the mental faculty to comprehend, or has no understanding of good and evil, then He cannot be condemned by God. In John 9:41 Jesus said to the Pharisees, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains." The detail of doctrine is very important for those of us who can understand, though, if we consciously reject God's gracious offer of salvation.

There is limited value in analysing men’s words. Expert theologians whose life work has been studying such detail, cannot agree on its meaning. So that cannot be Truth.

I think this is a risky stance to take, because then Truth could be whatever we decide it is.

@RatedDoingMagic For just one of a myriad of examples, consider the position of those tragically many people whose experience of Christianity and the church has been one of pain, abuse of power and sexual abuse.

Yes, it is far more difficult for them for obvious reasons, but God is a God of divine miracles and He is able to heal all. That might sound glib on the face of it, but God can and does provide a way. Those practising Christians amongst us have a responsibility to pray for those people and show God's true nature to them so that they can be healed.

The fact that all who truly believe are saved does not intrinsically imply the opposite for those who don't, and is not incompatible with an understanding that everyone else is also on a path to the same eventual destination.

Why do you assume everyone is on a path to the same eventual destination?

@HowDoYouSolveAProblemLikeMyRear

It always takes an extraordinary, divine miracle to save a sinner.

Yes indeed it does!

@anonhop The God I believe in and follow is not exclusively a Christian God. He is the creator and loves all his creation. He has been in existence for all of time. He was God to prehistoric man and from then on to peoples of all nations. I believe that God has revealed himself in many ways and to many peoples across the centuries, including in the person of Jesus. Religion is a man made construct which tries to make sense of the divine, but how can we understand God? He is beyond the understanding of even the wisest and most learned.
I was born in a century and country where Christianity was predominant so this is the 'religion' that I have learned and still adhere to. Had I been born elsewhere I would likely have been Muslim or Hindu. I don't consider my religion to be the correct one, just an expression of my faith in God.
IMHO everybody has a different faith journey but ultimately we are seeking communion with the creator God.

But, assuming we’re talking about the UK, literally everyone knows about Christianity and its basic tenets.

The New Testament’s exhortations about spreading the word are made in the context of Christianity being a tiny new splinter group from Second Temple Judaism, where lots of people hadn’t encountered it, or thought it wasn’t for Gentiles, and where evangelising was literally telling people about an offbeat new religion they probably hadn’t heard of, and which was going to be necessary for the movement to continue to exist. Basically, all that emphasis on spreading the gospel is as historical as Leviticus on food exclusions.

Beautifully put.

This is also perfect. I think I'm the same.

@AlteredStater Why do you assume everyone is on a path to the same eventual destination?

Because God desires that All Shall Be saved and is big enough and powerful enough and loving enough to make that happen. None of the mess and mistakes and misunderstandings and sinfulness that we are all prey to in this fallen world being is enough to prevent that from coming about somehow, for each individual. Human beings love to define an "in" crowd and an "out" crowd and place themselves in the former and need the existence of the latter so that they can be glad to not be in that category, but God doesn't work like that.

@Trallia "that it is with someone who will proselytise their atheism at you."

How do you proselytise atheism?

👏
most people are lukewarm Christians and don’t even realise it

I love the variety of understanding that is being shared on this thread.

I hope that generosity continues, and we can continue to listen and share without judgement.

You mentioned earlier Jesus bringing redemption to the world via his death (which I agree with), are you saying that He brought redemption to humanity in general, so there is not necessarily a need to say 'I accept Jesus as my saviour' or words/thoughts to that effect? But you expand that to include all religions or no religion at all, in other words, the redemption has been bought for us and so all will be saved in due course no matter what they believe at this point? I think I understand where you are coming from. Oh wait, yes that's Universal Reconciliation I think?

The main problem that springs to mind with that view is people might think there's no urgency or even necessity in having belief in Jesus and God at all. What would your line of thought say about atheists who die in atheism? Are they still saved?

It's the duty of Christians and Muslims to spread their faith as far and wide as possible. If you want to belong to one of those religions then that's an aspect you presumably have to embrace.

@AlteredStater

"You mentioned earlier Jesus bringing redemption to the world via his death (which I agree with), are you saying that He brought redemption to humanity in general, so there is not necessarily a need to say 'I accept Jesus as my saviour' or words/thoughts to that effect?"

Jesus said "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".

The Quoran states: "And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will not be accepted from him (Allah), and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers"

Are you sure the decision has to be made before they die? I mean, if I were an atheist and I suddenly found myself face to face with God, I’d change my mind.

The joy of serving Jesus in life is its own reward. I’m not in it for a decent seat in Heaven, like a lady I once knew.

Personally, yes I'm sure the decision must be made this side of death. They do say there will be no atheists in Hell though! For the exact reason you say.

Yes serving Jesus is a joy in this life, but this life is very, very short and eternity is forever. We can't earn a 'decent seat' in Heaven because all believers will be equal in the Kingdom.