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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

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Original poster

A question for all religions really - what makes you think there IS a God watching over you?

59 replies

allgonebellyup · 20/04/2008 19:08

Just out of curiosity really...
Were you brought up in this religion and dont know any different?
Have you ever felt the presence of anything?
Have any of your prayers been answered?

OP posts:

Makingdo · 21/04/2008 07:57

Message withdrawn

Original poster

allgonebellyup · 21/04/2008 07:57

ok, re the gym comp thing, maybe i am just intuitive rather than having my prayers answered .... i had a "feeling" weeks before the comp that my dd would win, god knows why, cos shes not that good!!!!

i had a gut "feeling" that one night in december 2001 near christmas something special would happen, and it did, i met my dh that night, and it became the happiest time i ever knew..
i always have these kind of intuitions, like i know this year is still not going to be fabulous, but i have a great feeling about 2009..
i never know whether this is intuition or someone guiding me???

OP posts:

AMumInScotland · 21/04/2008 09:15

I think maybe the answer is that you can never be exactly sure (even if you do believe in a God who does/can intervene, you never really know that this particular thing was intervention not coincidence) but you make a decision on how you live your life and where you look for strength/encouragement. Whether that is God, gods, Fate, or your own sense of right and wrong.

If you feel there is something "more" and want to explore what that is, there are lots of avenues. But equally if you just want to be happy that something has turned out nicely for a change, that's fine too.

totalmisfit · 21/04/2008 09:54

the problem i have with changing the bits in the bible which say 'Lord' to 'me' or 'I' is that quite often when people start to believe that they have all the answers within themselves...well, it can be a slippery slope towards narcissism.

For me, one of the most important things about Christianity is that it's a relief for me to admit that i can't achieve everything on my own. I'm pretty sure that i don't have all the answers (either consciously or subconsciously) which would allow me to live life to the best of my abilities and to be the best person i could possibly be towards others. So when i turn to Jesus' words in the bible it's like a breath of fresh air, reminding me of the basic things i need to do in order to be kind and loving and to live a good life.

Original poster

allgonebellyup · 24/04/2008 10:54

i have been thinking about this long and hard over the past few months, and finally i have reached a conclusion: there is NOTHING there.
It has taken me years to realise this.
It does make me wonder about religion and all the people who do believe, i guess its a kind of security blanket for them.

my ex always said "religion is for the weak".. guess i was being weak for a while then!!

OP posts:

InLoveWithSweenyTodd · 24/04/2008 17:10

Answering the OP, the question for me is... what makes you think there isn't?

slayerette · 24/04/2008 17:19

SweeneyTodd - Darfur, the Holocaust, the tsunami, the killing fields of Cambodia, the Ethiopian famine of the 80s...

saadia · 24/04/2008 17:20

I was brought up a Muslim and I do in my heart believe there is a God. For me it is a sort of emotional reaction - when I see my children sleeping and looking beautiful my first thought is to say thank you to Him, when I see an amazing sunset or something beautiful in nature - plants, birds, animals, scenery, the hidden depths of the oceans or just thinking about the solar system my first thought is what an amazing and beautiful world He has made.

I would say that many of my prayers have been answered and I know that many people have also prayed for me since when I was a child and that is why I have been blessed now with a happy family.

InLoveWithSweenyTodd · 24/04/2008 17:29

slayerette, those are examples of evil and tragedy in this world, which I don't think are incompatible with a God watching over us.

Original poster

allgonebellyup · 24/04/2008 17:35

personally i think Slayerette is right.

OP posts:

LookattheLottie · 24/04/2008 17:36

I don't believe in God and never had. I'm always interested in hearing what people have to say though, as I think very differently to those who do follow a religion.

I believe in science and facts, which prove to me that there is no God. When I look at my daughter, I don't thank God. He didn't make her, I did! When I see the earth, I don't thank God, I thank evolution.

For me there is also too much tragedy and bad in this world for there to be a God, far more than would be needed to 'balance the scales' if you like.

I do however think it's nice that people have their own beliefs, I think it can give many people a feeling of purpose.

InLoveWithSweenyTodd · 24/04/2008 17:51

I suppose it is a question of expectations.
From my religion point of view, tragedy and evil in the world are the result of the actions of Satan and men exercising their free will and choosing evil instead of good.
God has no power over our will and choices. Paradoxically, he chose to make us that way to make us free like him.
So, he is not going to intervene against our will when we choose to do wrong. If he did, we wouldn't have free will really.
He wants us to choose right by our own volition.

InLoveWithSweenyTodd · 24/04/2008 17:53

hence, evil is compatible with the existence of a God watching over us.
If your concept of God is like a superhero then obviously evil doesn't have a place in the world.

slayerette · 24/04/2008 17:57

If my examples are not incompatible with a God watching over us, sweenytodd, then they surely demand that we question the nature of such a God. Personally, I think those examples are incompatible with a God which is a watchful, protective and benign presence as he is so often presented but perhaps you have a different perception of him which would better fit with the scale of suffering we see in the world. Arguably the Holocaust and the killing fields are examples of man's inhumanity to man, but even so, those who suffered under Hitler and Pol Pot's regimes must have wondered at times who was watching over them.

Lazycow · 24/04/2008 18:16

I think a view of God who is watchful, protective and benign is a very limited view of God. He/she is all of these things, He/she is also, all powerful, mysterious and all knowing and also to be feared because if we truely want to do His will, we very often have to deny our own. His presence in our lives is not always comforting and lovely , in fact it is often challenging, uncomfortable and frightening.

As for prayer, I try to keep my prayers to ones that are about asking for guidance and to know His will, praising and thanking God for the many blessings in my life.

I can't say I don't fall into the plea bargaining & negotiation many of us mistake for true prayer and communion with God but I try not to.

slayerette · 24/04/2008 18:22

I don't agree that a benign God can, by definition, also be one that is to be feared.

LookattheLottie · 24/04/2008 18:25

Can I ask, if you believe you need/want to do God's will, how can you say that God has given you free will? Because surely it's not exercising free will when religion places emphasis on people to do God's will? One conflicts with the other surely........?

InLoveWithSweenyTodd · 24/04/2008 20:15

If we didn't have free will there wouldn't be any evil, as everybody would be doing God's will. Because we have free will we can decide to do good or bad. God wants us to do good - his will - but cannot force us to. That is the definition of free will - it is the ability to choose.
If we were not free to choose, there wouldn't be real criminals. If we were somehow determined to act in one way or other, people would not be responsible for their acts. Punishment for an evil act implies that the person who was evil had the choice to be good but decided not too.

InLoveWithSweenyTodd · 24/04/2008 20:17

slayerette, i think lazycow responded well to your question about the nature of God, so I won't repeat the argument.

Lauriefairycake · 24/04/2008 20:19

not really brought up with it.

Can feel god with me as a presence. Can feel him working through me when I'm working (counsellor and also with Samaritans)

I have to ask him to be with me though, I can easily turn away from him and ignore him - that's my free will

I don't sit down and pray often but I carry a sense of prayer/presence of prayer most of the time.

MicrowaveOnly · 24/04/2008 20:27

I have a sick child and know others in the same boat who are very religious.

I feel very offended by the thought that there is someone watching these children suffering and he has the power to do something if I pray/plead VERY hard. Hey but even then he might not cos its all in his plan/ doesn't suit him.

They believe God will answer their prayers and make their child well. But if he doesn't they still believe he is there and is giving them the strength to deal with the illness.

So really God is in a win win situaton isn't he!!!

and if you are omnipotent and just pick and choose who you save that strikes me as a very arrogant not very nice being.

Lauriefairycake · 24/04/2008 20:34

Microwave - I don't think that it's all about god stepping in personally and fixing suffering but instead supporting you while you are with the pain.

When I have had miscarriages I have believed a few things:

that biologically they were not viable
that the suffering helped me with other people with this pain in my work

I think free will is global too. There are people dying hungry/of injustice all over the world and we have been given the resources to help. We have free will to help others.

Sorry your child is sick Lucky they are to have you to love them

Greyriverside · 24/04/2008 20:35

Allfgonebellyup, how do you feel having decided there is nothing there? worried or relieved?

Speaking of religious people in general I do understand how attractive it can be to have someone tell you how to live and who will 'look after you' Most of us experienced this in childhood and on bad days I'm sure we all miss it.

On the other hand atheists don't have to feel that they are in a competition and have not been told the rules. So many religions and nearly all of them tell you that you have to work it out with 'faith' (whatever that means). Each saying that if you guess wrong one you will be punished.

Atheism is real freedom

Lauriefairycake · 24/04/2008 20:38

atheism is real freedom - that makes no sense cos it means actively disagreeing that there is a god

maybe you mean agnosticism is real freedom, which means neither believing nor disbelieving

No one tells me how to live and god doesn't look after me, humans do that. I don't believe in heaven either. I believe god/spirit/presence helps me with my work and is with me always.

MicrowaveOnly · 24/04/2008 20:41

Laurie but how exactly is He supporting us when we have pain? my dh and friend support me, my doctors support me, where and how is the evidence that there is another being supporting me?

Surely it is just wishful thinking, or else we have to admit that all this pain and suffering in the world is random and affects us, and that's our tough luck?

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