Atheists and proof cont….

[Kdtym10]

A carry on from the previous thread

@Kdtym10 I'll let you interpret that how you wish!

But you have been on threads where many people have made it clear that this is an important distinction (I’ll have to go back and see if it was to you personally) so it’s a bit disingenuous to say it only matters to me when I know you have seen many atheists stating this exact distinction.

Just because that position is now inconvenient on this particular thread doesn’t make the past go away.

I thought atheists were all about objective truth not magical thinking.

Give me strength - you really aren’t getting it are you @Kdtym10 There is no difference!

There is no difference - do you now understand? God is like Father Christmas and the tooth fairy - you learn that they don’t exist

Thank you - if there was ever good reason to remain an atheist, this thread has convinced me I’m right.

Growing up in a Christian society, people who don't believe in God are kind of forced to pick a side. Someone tells you their idea of God and you are often pressured to declare yourself a believer or a non-believer. I do not feel the presence of a Christian God, or any God. Therefore I do not believe in a God, or any God. Someone else telling me their stories or theories about God, Gods or reincarnation can not help me feel the presence of these things. I am an atheist because the alternative is to be agnostic, but the idea of God seems so improbable that I can not allow for some reasonable doubt. So I am an atheist.

Atheism is, frankly, an enforced word. Like afairyist, or aunicornist. It shouldn't have to exist. So trying so hard to enforce your own definition of it is doomed to failure.

I'm sure for most atheists, as we have seen from these threads, the slightest hint of an idea of a suggestion of some evidence for the existence of a deity would be of interest. We are, by the true definition, probably all agnostics, but the chance of there actually being any kind of deity is so vanishingly small, that it is just simpler to use the term atheist. To then spend your life arguing about the definition of the word is the very quintessence of futility, from a scarily desperate deist viewpoint...

@Kdtym10, you keep trying to say that lack of belief is a belief. It isn't, and it can't be. Lack of a sandwich isn't a sandwich. "Active disbelief" is the same as lack of belief, is the same as absence of belief.

My disbelief only becomes active when debating supernatural matters. The majority of my time, I have no thoughts relating to gods & spirits. They are a non-feature in my mental landscape, character, self. Absence of belief doesn't inform or drive me, any more than absence of garden gnomes does!

Can I please ask those who don't believe in a Creator i.e. God.

Other than expecting God to come and shake you're hand, what evidence or knowledge you want to know that will prove existence of an Creator/God?

I am aware from reading many of the posts that some people just don't believe, which is fine.

But, what happens if your belief is based on information and lack of knowledge that you may not have come across?

So, if I may. Quote you meaning of a verse revealed 1,400 years ago which states:

"Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?" (Qur'an, 21:30)

“And the heaven We created with might, and indeed We are (its) expander.” (Qur'an 51:47)

I am not a person of science but I would interpret that as what the science calls, 'Big Bang' theory?

As Muslims consider the Qur'an (only in the original Arabic language) the literal word from God, therefore, we do not need science to validate the accurateness of Qur'anic statements.Rather, it's other way around.

If you must, perhaps you might want to read the what Professor Emeritus Keith L. Moore, a prominent scientist in anatomy and embryology wrote after studying verses of the Qur'an regarding development of embryology.

This is not about he said or she said but rather investigating where could these knowledge of come from in the 7th century when they weren't known until the 17th century science at the earliest.

I know some will says the Greeks and others knew about this subject before the 7th century, partly true. But, they weren't accurate to what it is mentioned in the Qur'an.

"Can I please ask those who don't believe in a Creator i.e. God.

Other than expecting God to come and shake you're hand, what evidence or knowledge you want to know that will prove existence of an Creator/God?"

Isn't that the whole point of these threads? Have you read the whole lot?

"Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?"(Qur'an, 21:30)

“And the heaven We created with might, and indeed We are (its) expander.”(Qur'an 51:47)

Why quote this nonsense? It's meaningless drivel to anyone that doesn't believe. Just because we may not know the complete history of the universe, it doesn't mean we have to assume some god came up with it. It's absolutely ridiculous!

The previous thread had 40 pages of atheists explaining why they don't believe in God and what it would take for them to change their minds. I suggest you start there.

Common sense tells me there is no god. The Big Bang Theory explains how the universe was created

There are legions of creation stories, all created by humans trying to explain how the earth and every living creature came to be. More learning leads me to the conclusion that humans make up stories to explain what we do not understand. Why would I believe one creation story over another? More learning does not lead me to believe in an omnipotent God; it leads me away from such a simple view.

And most religions then go on to place men in positions of power who try to control other people with "the word of God". Which seems crazy to an outside observer -- that a human would claim they understand what this God wants everyone to do on a daily basis.

I'd seen that about Mohammed's embryology before, @Deenforme, have just done a quick recap. And ... nope, sorry. Those verses are just an elaboration of the "Man from mud" myth, which features in virtually every Middle-Eastern religion from way before Judaism. Proponents of religious texts put a lot of effort into retro-fitting fantastical stories to current knowledge.

These civilisations set a very high value on agriculture. The fertilisation, implantation, germination and unfurling of a seed in soil was a matter of huge importance. In this imaginative translation of plant to human life, the development of bones & flesh would make sense to a 7th century thinker - if we ignore the bit about the angel - and they would have seen 6-week embryos, both human and animal. But it does not correctly describe human development.

Retro-fit if it makes you happy 😎

No I’m not getting it, there is a difference.

No that is exactly my point there is a difference between lack of belief (passive) is very different from a belief (active) it is others like @Parker231 who are trying to tell me “there is no difference” - I 100% agree with your analogy, thank you!

@Parker231 you might find @Garlicking post at 23.29 a better explanation than mine of the difference

What makes you calculate the likelihood of there being a deity as “vanishingly small”

Thanks for your informative answer. So your position is based on a lack of feeling re presence of a God )ie the opposite of why most believe?

Glad you’ve found the thread helpful

Interpret what?

Can you expand on this? You seem to be stating that people of faith are suffering from a mental illness. I assume that I have misunderstood that.

Thanks for sharing. Yes I’m aware of your views that the is no God. From your previous post I was just trying to ascertain whether you see this as opinion or fact?

Thanks for sharing. I find the quote “. I lack the fundamental ability to believe.” Really interesting. Do you think that peoples ability to be a believer is innate?

Yes.