Do you have any sense of Duty?

[ahundredtimes]

Does a sense of duty exist anymore?

Do you think it's an outmoded concept or not?

is motherhood a duty?

Is it our duty to be good citizens?

I've written that word four times now - and it still look weird and wrong.

Duty free.

That looks okay.

I was thinking about it today - everyone talks about their rights but never duty.

Spot on science teacher. I don't think that duty and self sacrifice are inextricably linked...my DH used to go off to sea in a black tube which was his duty, and he had to go irrespective of family responsibilities. He enjoyed what he did though, so there was no element of self sacrifice there.

mmm don't know about duty. But I do guilt very well. Shall we do guilt or has the subject been completely exhausted on mn?
Anyway, I'm off to do the sodding ironing

Plenty of Mumsnetters will have a strong sense of duty. Anyone who is on the school PTA, governing body, NCT committee, parent & toddler committee etc. are doing it because they recognise they have the skills etc, and are really getting very little back from it themselves.

But plenty of people do those PTA things, and get a sense of satisfaction because they are doing it, and they know that lots of people don't really want to; it's like giving to charity where you know you are doing the right thing and that lots of people don't. It can make you feel good about yourself. I help out in the classroom in an absolutely minute way, but I do feel good about it and I feel better about myself because I do it. It's because I can do it, do it quite well, and better than some; because it does help, even only a tiny bit.

I don't think any of those examples are of duty; only in the sense that if you take a job it entails certain duties. I think the op was talking about a different kind of duty. I think the examples are of responsibility towards elements of society.

I think that the possible motivations for the type of voluntary work described go beyond duty.

Lots of people do voluntary jobs for social reasons (they like the company), because they have an agenda (they want to get close to sources of power for their own, or their family's benefit), they are busy-freaks, or busibodies.

Duty, or a sense of responsibility to the wider community, can be a motivating factor. But it isn't the only one.

This may sound odd/badly phrased for which I apologise, and I am not meaning to suggest that those without a sense of duty don't have morals. I'm trying to sort this out in my own mind.

I think that you have a sense of duty if you have a fairly robust private moral universe...you do things because they are a moral/categorical imperative, because you HAVE to do them....saving someone from a burning building etc. I think that responsibility, whilst very important, is not the same thing as duty.

Duty can be regarded as outmoded perhaps, but I don't feel that that is necessarily a good thing.

With a responsibility you can query it perhaps...why you ended up doing it. With duty, it just IS your duty. An innate sense of moral obligation perhaps.

My parents have a strong sense of duty. They beleive that it is everyone's duty to volunteer for things - they spent years cleaning the church, ringing bells, doing flowers, running stalls at fetes etc. They think that my generation (and later ones) are lazy and have a weak sense of duty because so many of us don't do these things.

OrmIrian - and do you think that in your parents' heart of hearts it is really duty that motivates them? Or do they actually enjoy the social aspects of all that church cleaning, flower arranging etc? Is it the glue that keeps them sane?

I ask because I have a very dear aunt who does all the things you mention. She undoubtedly thinks that she is motivated by duty/community spirit, but actually (and I love her very much indeed) her motives are often baser than that. She wants to do those things and if they dried up, she would be miserable and lonely.

Oh both anna. Definitely they enjoy it at times. But the point is that the still do it on the occasions (increasingly as they get older) when they really don't want to.

They are both 76 now and neither are in perfect health. As they slowly and reluctantly drop some of their 'duties' they are finding it sad how few of the next generation are prepared to take them on. I don't know the answer though - I wouldn;t be able to do half the things they did.

I understand your parents' sadness. I think that they are right that later generations don't want to do those things.

In fact, my aunt and my mother (her sister) and father - so the same generation, well over 70 - disagree quite profoundly about those things. My aunt does it all - my mother does none - my mother however picks litter and my father does Church recording. My parents despise my aunt and my aunt despises them (in the friendliest, most loving and supportive way) for their self-indulgence in their choice of voluntary activities.

All each has done is choose the ones they enjoy the most

Duty is that which is due. It is something that you need to do not because you expect a reward, but because you are already in receipt of a benefit of some kind and therefore feel an obligation to reciprocate.

It could be a very specific duty such as looking after your elderly parents because they looked after you, or a very broad duty such as considering the effects of your actions on all society (as opposed to just you and your family) because you have benefited from the stable conditions that society has afforded you.

I think it is a very useful concept. Not sure why it seems old fashioned. Possibly because we live in very individualistic times with a great emphasis on achieving personal goals rather than recognising that we are all interconnected and ultimately owe our achievements to others as much as to ourselves. It may also be because it has been replaced by more scientific theories of altruism popularised by Richard Dawkins etc.

(I have quite a strong sense of duty, but unfortunately an even stronger sense that I am generally shirking it. I suppose that's a Catholic upbringing for you.)

Oh dear - I've killed the thread with my terrible convoluted sentences.

I think it's such an interesting subject. Doesn't anyone else have anything to add?

Are you a Catholic believer?

No

Iorek, no, 'twasn't thread-killage, it was awed silence [awe]

Do you think therefore that you are bearing the burden of duty without the corresponding hope of recompense in an afterlife?

I don't think the concept of duty is dependent upon belief in an "afterlife" at all.

I do think that it is a good idea to consider that our achievements, privileges and possessions are the result not just of our own actions but of the larger social environment in which we live, and that we might therefore have an obligation towards this larger body. This is duty.

Generally, duty seems like a useful concept in times of collective crisis, where individuals see an urgent need for collective action. I think though that it is also a concept that becomes overused in these situations as a propaganda tool and consequently becomes unpopular and an object of satire (think of Gilbert's "slave to duty" in Pirates of Penzance, or the various Peter Cook characters from the 1960's when the horror of WW2 was starting to fade).

I think that part of the reason that it is not popular currently is that we have not had a collective crisis of this kind for the last forty years, and that in any case, it is harder to reach a consensus on the collective good because we all have instant access to a near infinite variety of conflicting viewpoints on any topic.

I'm particularly interested in the idea that to some extent "duty" may have been superseded by more scientific concepts of altruism propagated by game theorists and evoloutionary psychologists. Perhaps we are all rational enough nowadays that when we perform selfless acts for the greater good, we do it not out of this sense of innate obligation, but because we know that ultimately it is better for all of us.

What do you think?

I think that you are very right to think that the population as a whole has a better understanding of the benefits to us all of cooperation as demonstrated by game theorists and evolutionary psychologists.

I suppose that I do associate the concept of "duty" with the external moral framework of organised religion, and since I refute that framework and rather aspire to personal autonomy and self-discipline I prefer the concept of "responsibility" (as discussed below) to that of "duty".

I'm sure that in the next collective crisis people will largely come together and cooperate for the greater good as they always have done.

IoreByrnison

You have said much of what I was struggling to say but in a much more much eloquent way than I could have managed.

I think duty is closely linked to an awareness of something greater than ourselves, this could be God, the idea of family et, the greater good etc.

I'm not sure though that doing good because we ultimately know it is better for all of us is very different than having a sense of duty other than the former does incorporate an element of self-awareness that the second possibly does not.

I'm not sure I really see duty as something necessarily requiring self-sacrifice in a 'martyrish' way, though of course this is a common way to be 'dutiful.

To my mind duty and self-sacrifice for a greater good can be incredibly rewarding and life-enhancing if done without the ever present danger of resentment. A very difficult thing to do but if it is achieved then I think that is duty in it's highest form.

I do not think 'duty' or self-sacrifices are per se are bad things at all and they can indeed be very rewarding but then I am a Catholic so this may explain much

I definately have an (over active) sense of duty esp to family members and in my job.

I don't have any religeous beliefs now, but was brought up as a church goer (maybe where it comes from).

At work I have a strong sense of duty to my patients and colleagues (hate to go off sick, always try to see as many patients as I can).

My husband has much less sense of duty. I think traditionally men don't.