Why I'm sad to no longer be a Christian

[BrainInAJar]

Hello

I lived 40 years of my life believing that:

a) I would see my cats again when I die; and
b) evil people would be punished after they die.

And now I realise this is not so.

I am sad.

Other people without religion do believe they'll be reunited with their pets and family members without having to follow religion. It's a very personal thing that does not have to involve following rules or preset ideas of heaven and hell.
I'd like to think that evil people are punished after they die, but also think in their cases it would be okay too if they just ceased to exist in any form. Like boom, you fucked up and you're a terrible person who's done terrible things so poof, you're done. You get nothing. Blank. Just nothing goes on when your body fails other than it having to be disposed of.
None of us will ever know what happens good or bad, to us, family or animals until we flat line. It might be something or it might equally be nothing - just ceasing to exist. And no one can ever report back.
Death is a terrifying thing as a concept alone.
Try to look at it as no one knows, we can only hope. And that hope doesn't need to be defined within a strict preset bunch of rules someone else came up with.

I think that if you need a fear of hell or promise of reward to be a good person then you aren't a good person, but pretty much all of us fall short of any really rigorous definition of being a good person (I love the bit in The Good Place where they work out why no one has legitimately qualified for Heaven for hundreds of years).

I'm agnostic on the reality of an afterlife but that doesn't stop me being a Christian - a Christian is someone who is attempting to follow Jesus Christ's teachings for how to live. No one gets to dictate which other beliefs are "required" for being a Christian. Many many people claim that authority and have their own definitions for what makes you a "real" Christian (some mutually exclusive) but anyone can reject such man-made claims. Even the Pope only gets to dictate what you have to believe to be a Catholic, he doesn't have any authority to define what makes a non-Catholic a Christian.

If Heaven exists then it's not just Jesus's death that was important but the whole package of God's incarnation as human, including that death, that forged a bridge between the incompressible perfection of the divine and the otherwise-irredeemable selfish and mistake-filled reality of a human life. It was important for God to be part of the human experience so that humans could be part of the divine experience. It's not so much that Jesus died to save us but that he lived-and-died (Shanshu'd - for the Buffy and Angel fans among us) to save us.

@TooScaredToPostOnMN fully agree. The bible is pretty clear on what a Christian is. Someone whose sins have been forgiven because they have accepted the sacrifice of Jesus' death. You can still be a good person or a spiritual person or whatever but if your fundamental belief system on sin/afterlife/forgiveness/Jesus is different than what the Bible says, it I'm surprised that person would want to label themselves "Christian".

I think a lot of folk use "Christian" as short-hand for "I try to be a decent person, I believe in a God and I'm not a Hindu/Muslim/Sikh" or "I'm a respectable white British person of a certain age". (A lot of older ladies round here wear cashmere coats to church to socialise with their friends but have never opened a bible)

I'm not specifically referring to specific previous posters with all of this by the way, just general ponderings.

And it is a very interesting discussion so thank you!

I also left Christianity after a life time of faith! I was so happy to no longer worry that people I love who just happen to not be Christians would go to hell. Christianity is so cruel in the sense that anyone who is not a Christian is condemned to hell. You could be a lovely kind Hindu but you are going to hell! So glad not to have that messing with my head anymore.

I've just posted on this very interesting thread.

(A giant post on page 10!)

To think that God doesn't exist and is a manmade concept | Mumsnet

If you are interested in exploring why people may identify as Christian but have different beliefs than you did when you identified as a Christian, then I would suggest reading one of these books https://christianuniversalist.org/resources/books/

Also Being Human by Steve Chalke

I remember reading that nobody in his local parish could recall him ever attending Mass . Perhaps it was part of his smokescreen.

I’d call myself a Christian, I believe that Jesus lived and died for us, I believe in God as a divine being. I pray, mostly for others but sometimes for myself too I’m afraid.

I don’t know about heaven, I guess I’ll find out one day. I don’t think about hell, although I like the PP’s view of it being an absence of God’s love. I see God in the love people have for each other, and to your point on animals, in the caring for other beings.

I’m perhaps not a very questioning person. I’ve not studied the bible beyond what I hear in church. I’ve fallen into belief and church attendance without being raised that way. I am happy with my haphazard combination of belief and don’t feel the need to probe it, to make it correct or incorrect, it just is.

How do you know this isn't so?

Can I ask how and why you realised you’re not?

Oh sorry I didn’t see your post @EFBF2183331

Another reason I'm sad - this is my first year of not believing. I have LOADS of (not cheap) Christian-themed decorations for my tree. I think it will be a while my tree even sees the light of day again, never mind all the baby-Jesuses and crosses.

But Christian can mean a lot of different things. Thanks to certain actions of the Christian church (including genocide) there’s a certain view of what it means to be Christina pushed forward and people mistake this as being the only way to be a Christian.

it’s perfectly possible to be a Christian, believing in Christ consciousness and that christ consciousness can be achieved by all. I would say I’m Christian but I believe I am as equal a daughter of God as Jesus was his son.

I would argue being disappointed people aren’t going to burn in hell isn’t actually a very Christian belief to begin with

I've never believed in god, but I can understand it must be hard to let go of the comforting aspects of a faith you've grown up with but no longer believe in.

There are fundamental things required to be an evangelical Christian. Many other kinds exist.

From what and how you are writing, I think you do still believe.

Hold onto that. Really hold on to that. And treasure it. Never throw it away.

So long as you do, you are still a Christian.
Even if that is all you have until you die.
Hopefully and I pray, that your Christian faith will increase again some time.

It's in the Bible though. In Leviticus.

That's why 7 day adventists don't eat it.

Although they don't drink alcohol, which isn't banned.

Yes, I mean if we go back to the very earliest Christians, it appears Jesusonly became Christ after his resurrection, he wasn’t born of a virgin. His divine status (beyond that of man) in his life time is not a commonly held thought. Clearly the Trinity didn’t exist as a concept although people tried to read this back.

if you strip back the layers of man made rules and ponderings we realise what Jesus was actually saying “ye are gods”

@lightand thank you, that's very kind and perceptive of you, I appreciate it.