Can we have a positive thread about Catholicism?

[PadgettsDream]

There is currently a thread running where there is a lot of criticism of the Catholic Church which is in many cases fair enough and it needs to be discussed but that thread in my opinion often strays into outright anti-Catholic sentiment and even bigotry against Catholics and Catholicism in general.

So I wonder if anyone would like a space to talk about the positives of the Church? I myself was raised Catholic, went to a convent School and it was wonderful really. I did not have any bad experiences and the Church has always been a source of strength and comfort for me. It doesn't dominate my life, I'm not brainwashed by it but its been an important foundation for me and I am thankful for it. In my own family history the Church stepped in and helped when nobody else would.

Any other positive stories?

@OscarsAmmonite2 I agree about going to mass during the week, I find it much more peaceful. The Church I go to On Sundays is beautiful though, the priests will either sing a lot of the mass, they also have a wonderful choir and the congregation are invited to sing the responses and prayers. It's truly lovely. They have brought back the altar rail so you can kneel or stand to receive communion.

@Iwasafool , how distressing. The Cubs has done so much to help children, I'm glad you carried on.
I've been a teacher for many years, and you can no doubt understand how many cases of abuse I have heard and reported - mostly these occurred within the family, but sometimes from other trusted adults. We always have to be vigilant and report.

I send my kids to a Catholic primary and have to say they are treated like family by all the staff. It's so warm and nurturing and has a real sense of community. I thought all church schools would be like that but unfortunately when my Ds went to a Quaker secondary we had a different experience.

@Gingerbreadandtea , I like a sung mass.
We have a big Polish community in our town and one church has a Polish mass every Sunday. That particular community have done good work with the local young homeless people, a community room is open as a safe space, and food is provided.

CAFOD, the aid agency. Not the only one but all work to improve lives in developing countries, be it emergency help or to enable longer term income and free people from poverty.

I'm on holiday ATM and was at a museum of Islamic art and there was a beautiful ancient prayer niche - tiled with geometric Arabic tiles- it was designed so that the person praying would face into the alcove and the sound would be bounced from the alcove/niche to those praying behind.

I could have sent DS to a Catholic primary but it required a bus ride and as an only child I wanted him to be more connected into the local community in our housing estate. I just thought well I have an interest in Catholic theology so I'll just cover that element myself.

I actually find this comparison quite disappointing.

The Catholic Church actively covered up for predatory paedophiles within their organisation. Offending priests were often moved to a new diocese rather than punished, to start offending all over again without the unsuspecting congratulations knowing who they were. That is significantly different to individual offenders within the scout movement. It is the very fact that the church knew and did not protect the vulnerable children that is so horrifying.

I find the dismissal of this fact amd the church's culpability in it deeply offending to survivors of abuse by the Catholic Church. Many survivors who are sadly not with us anymore having taken their own life.

Please think carefully before making statements like this.

*congregations

I don’t want to change your beliefs, I respect your right to them.
As I have repeatedly said in this thread and the other I have no issue with Catholics, it’s the Church as an institution
Also, I am not minimising anything. I admire ALL people who commit brave and selfless acts to save others , I just respect those who do them without believing they will be rewarded spiritually for them a lot more.

I actually meant to quote the poster Iwasafool was responding to, but the point still stands.

I'm not against individual practising Catholics and would defend anyone's right to faith, but the Church has a dark past it needs to really acknowledge.

Imagine handing over your child to a priest for a church activity and that same church did not tell you he was a paedophile.

There are a lot of survivors around that this happened to.

I'm probably older than many but my early years were before the Mass in the vernacular. I still love the Latin mass but admired Pope John XXIII and the 2nd Vatican Council introduced many positive changes.

I think you possibly are older than me 😉. Did the priest face the altar then?

Blimey, @Iwasafool - I remember Vatican II as well! I had a beautiful mantilla to wear to Mass and I remember when they changed the rule so you didn't have to cover your head. I was most disappointed! (My mother continued to wear a hat, I think she found it strange not too).

to, not too

@Hoppinggreen I totally understand but believe none of those Catholics who did such brave acts did it because they thought of heaven, they did it because they were good people who had a deep love of God. But I agree there are a lot of very good people who have no faith or belief in God who did wonderful acts as well.

Yes, this.

It's simply not possible to be positive about homophobia

I'm not certain about the Latin mass, I love being able to interact in the mass and with the priest facing the congregation. Those who go say it's beautiful though.

@Gingerbreadandtea People think that those do good deeds out of fear of God or to score brownie points but really it is that their faith gives them the strength to do what they do or deepens their compassion and love of their fellow man. None of this exclusive to Catholics as you say and good works should always be applauded but neither are the crimes of some Catholic clergy exclusive to Catholics alone.

Impossible to be positive about a deeply homophobic and misogynistic institution, that covered up widespread sexual abuse over decades. I’m surprised it isn’t considered a sin to label people who are pointing this out as bigots.

I know you asked for Catholicism but I see this a lot with Christianity. I semi get it as I was atheist for 26 years of my life, I never bashed Christians but I certainly felt very negative about the religion. I've been saved now and obviously see it all very differently. Christian bashing is so unnecessary

@Gingerbreadandtea The Latin Mass was before my time so I'd love to experience it at least once as my parents did growing up.

Well that is taking it to a new level. So we can't even say something is disturbing (and take it from me a child describing sexual abuse is disturbing) is not allowed unless the perpetrator is a Catholic. Does it have to be a priest or will any Catholic do?

I didn't compare anything and I didn't dismiss anything but just in case you missed it maybe read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_sex_abuse_cases#:~:text=It%20has%20been%20alleged%20that,of%20the%20cases%20covered%20in

or this one https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/25/uk-ireland-child-sexual-abuse-scout-movement#:~:text=More%20than%20250%20people%20in,about%20the%20organisation's%20safeguarding%20procedures.

Cover ups didn't just happen in the Catholic Church and they were all just as wrong. Do you think your dismissal of the abuse in scouting is offensive to the survivors? Do you think refusing to accept abuse and cover up in general (not just the Catholic Church) is actually dangerous?

I was brought up a Catholic, attended a Catholic girl's school and never experienced the slightest threat. My Order of Nuns were very forward-thinking, nurturing and learned. Reverend Mother was a brilliant maths teacher and had a twinkling smile.

My faith ebbs and flows but it will never go away, it's part of who i am. I can still recite the Benediction in Latin and have my rosary from FHC in its original box as a reminder of that milestone and the unique rituals, ceremonies and culture of the Church.

Over my life I've taken the good from the Church's teachings and have appreciated the challenges and controversy of Catholicism existing in the modern world. I can't fix or reconcile that complexity, I live with the reality - the teachings have always been the backdrop and compass that guides me through my life.

Thank you for creating this thread to redress the balance @PadgettsDream I was quite upset by that rather abusive thread, slagging off all Catholics for heinous crimes commited by a subset of (not all!) men long before I was born and about which I had no visibility, as exposure of those crimes didnt happen until after I'd left school. The boys school was the partner school to mine, years later it emerged at the centre of the abuse controversy/scandal, but i knew nothing about it when as school girls we used to go there for Wed and Sun Mass. Talk about tarring all of us with a wide brush!

@Yahyahs22 I do think that many people have a beef with religion period. I suppose for some people its a neat scapegoat, these abuses, wars and so on were the fault of religion rather than seeing that all man's crimes or sins are inherently human and will occur just as readily in the non believer as the religious, it is hubris to think otherwise.