Can we have a positive thread about Catholicism?

[PadgettsDream]

There is currently a thread running where there is a lot of criticism of the Catholic Church which is in many cases fair enough and it needs to be discussed but that thread in my opinion often strays into outright anti-Catholic sentiment and even bigotry against Catholics and Catholicism in general.

So I wonder if anyone would like a space to talk about the positives of the Church? I myself was raised Catholic, went to a convent School and it was wonderful really. I did not have any bad experiences and the Church has always been a source of strength and comfort for me. It doesn't dominate my life, I'm not brainwashed by it but its been an important foundation for me and I am thankful for it. In my own family history the Church stepped in and helped when nobody else would.

Any other positive stories?

@OpheliaPlum - relentlessly positive? Isn't that what the OP started? To share positive experiences as a counter point to that other thread. However, as you'll see upthread, abuse has been discussed. I've not seen anyone shut down.

I wasn't being goady. I was being factual.

I for one would like to se all these references to abuse being stopped.

Yes, I think abuse should be discussed but not on this thread and not on MN for that matter.

The correct place for people to talk about their abuse is in a safe, supportive environment with a trained counsellor/therapist. Not on an open forum where it could be distressing and triggering for others.

I’m out, I didn’t come to be insulted. Enjoy your peaceful thread and Christian thoughts. Really insightful. I’ve learned a lot from your responses.

"The correct place for people to talk about their abuse is in a safe, supportive environment with a trained counsellor/therapist. Not on an open forum where it could be distressing and triggering for others."

It's tricky, though that, isn't it @Jackandjillswell? Sadly there is not enough counselling or counsellors available. And people often really need to talk. Not that I am saying you shouldn't be able to have a positive thread on Catholicism. But victims of abuse can certainly be forgiven for hurting can't they?

@meanderingbrook Sadly there is not enough counselling or counsellors available.

I suppose that depends on whether you can pay or not and what the resources are like in your part of the country.

@Jackandjillswell ah, yes, more inequality...

"People not being allowed to talk about abuse publicly is how it's allowed to continue. Thankfully, mumsnet does not take your stance that is should be hidden away from view."

@SiegmeyerOfCatarina, you are correct but at the same time it can be extremely difficult to be held to account for supporting structural abuse when you do do not hold any official authority in the particular structure.. that is it is difficult to tackle systemic abuse as a simple parishioner. The most vulnerable catholics were victims of the abuse. Yet the Catholics who do not hold any official authority are being criticised here. It's akin to a victim of domestic abuse coming onto a thread about wedding dresses or breast feeding and saying everyone is supporting the abuse of women within the patriarchy. And people do have a need to celebrate in amongst all the inequalities. Does sexual inequality mean women shouldn't marry or have relationships with men? No, not usually. Many married women would describe themselves as feminists.

@meanderingbrook - excellent points

@Maireas, thank you. I like to look towards where balance is when considering problems within society/structural corruption.

Thank you for starting this thread, OP. I for one really appreciate it as I am an Anglican currently discerning whether to convert to Catholicism. I had a convent education that set me up really well for life and that's where my interest in Catholicism began. I'm feeling a bit adrift in the CofE right now and have been powerfully drawn to Catholicism after going through some very challenging life events.
Good things about Catholicism?
-Catholic Social Teaching (look it up anyone who hasn't encountered it, it will blow your mind!! THIS is how we get to a more equitable world and an economy that works for everyone, not just the rich)
-Liberation Theology
-Ignatian spirituality
-The beauty of the Mass
-the social and ethnic diversity of the church (in London anyway,)

• The sincerity and prayerfulness of practicing Catholics I have met recently. They are in church due to their own convictions and spirituality, not because of social pressures or because they are scared to go to hell.

-The intellectual tradition and a culture of debate and discussion. yes really! Based on my experiences at school and in the Journey in Faith course I'm doing at my local church. Also the same mentality at a course I did online at the London Jesuit Centre. This ain't "leave your brain at the door" religion. God have you a brain and in my experience, Catholicism in its truest form encourages you to use it! -Respect for motherhood. -The general attitude of people I have met in my parish. They are intelligent, pragmatic and welcoming. The Deacon taking the JIF course I'm on has not flinched at ANY of the questions I have thrown at him (yes including about abuse in the Church), he is open about discussing the failures of the church and the ways it needs to move forward (rock solid safeguarding policies for a start, and a culture where dissent, discussion and questions are welcomed and not shut down) -And finally I just love Pope Francis. What a man. He has made some positive noises about LBGTQ folks, even inviting a group of trans prostitutes to visit the Vatican during COVID and holding a dialogue with them. I still struggle with the idea that homosexuality is "disordered" and it may prove too big a stumbling block for me personally BUT I think Pope Francis is starting to move in a positive and more inclusive direction (much to the chagrin of some rad trads but that is not a discussion for this thread)

So you aren't bothered if people get triggered and get distressed as a result?

A trauma trigger can cause enough anxiety to disrupt someone's day by causing anything from a momentary lapse, to a full blown panic attack.

You're more interested in having your say and airing your personal grievances than other people's feelings?

That's the epitome of selfishness and entitlement. I am appalled at your lack of insight into the suffering of others.

If it's going to be discussed publicly then at least there should be a trigger warning somewhere.

Why does that surprise you?

The NHS has been a Postcode Lottery for years.

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding something, but I don't think anyone on this thread is trying to shut down discussion of abuse, they are just saying that they wanted this thread to be a space where they could discuss the positive aspects of the Catholic faith? I don't see what is so problematic about that?

@Jackandjillswell,

"Why does that surprise you?'"

It doesn't surprise me at all. I just think, as Christians, as human beings, when facing such inequalities and need the call for compassion is greater.

Sometimes the call will come upon us, to listen, to be kind to people who are having a difficult time because there is no one else about, no one more qualified about. I don't believe anyone is ever truly qualified we just have to give it our best shot, even when it is difficult, even when won't be enough.

@SiegmeyerOfCatarina
Your wish to silence victims is extremely disturbing.

I have never said I 'wished to silence victims', so please don't misquote me.

Please read what I said again.

Victims of trauma should be allowed to tell their stories in their own way, which may not be publically. Let them talk at their own pace – it's important not to pressure or rush them. Focus on listening. Try to respect what they are choosing to share, rather than asking lots of questions.

Delayed responses to trauma can include persistent fatigue, sleep disorders, nightmares, fear of recurrence, anxiety focused on flashbacks, depression, and avoidance of emotions, sensations, or activities that are associated with the trauma, even remotely.

Which is why disclosure needs to be safe environment with a trained counsellor/therapist.

"And sharing stories of abuse is a bit more than "airing personal grievances". You're as bad as the poster who called people speaking about their abuse a pity party. Your wish to silence victims is extremely disturbing."

@SiegmeyerOfCatarina no it's certainly not a pity party. However, although people need room to talk about abuse you have to recognise some people also have to have the space to move past it, put it behind them - as with all trauma. My closest analogy is that when I was undergoing cancer treatment I didn't want the only topic of conversation to be cancer related. I actively wanted to minimise my cancer experience and still find space to live and enjoy living! People also do have a need to look forward in hope and be positive.

I have to say I’m disappointed in this thread 😂. I check for new posts every day expecting to see heart warming stories of people finding faith and comfort like me, and maybe gain strength and solidarity from that. Instead I find more people fighting and abuse being hurled around. I know there are Catholics out there but they are often hard to find and discuss things with as I find people are often scared to declare and talk about religion at work, the school gates etc. As PP have said, I would never want to shut down discussion about abuse, I would gladly start 10 threads to pick over it all and debate, discuss how the Catholic Church can move forward from the awful things it has done. But this thread isn’t it?

"Which is why disclosure needs to be safe environment with a trained counsellor/therapist."

@Jackandjillswell I think that's the bit I see as problematic. There are not enough trained people about. And in one way there never is enough training. I don't think lack of training should be stopping people from being kind and compassionate. Look at Jesus. He had no training any of the religious leaders could recognise. The question was, '..who is he?'.

@SiegmeyerOfCatarina Are you going to start going on all threads where people share their stories of abuse and call them selfish and entitled?

I could ask if you are going to go on threads and assert the right to free speech regardless of how it triggers/impacts others?

Now that's selfish no matter how you slice it.

@SiegmeyerOfCatarina It may not be publicly, but it may be publicly.

What does that even mean? It makes no sense.

Saying that abuse should not be discussed on mumsnet at all does not sound like you want them to talk at their own pace, it sounds like you don't want them to talk at all.

So because I have serious concerns about people revealing past traumas on MN (or on any open forum for the reasons specified) you have concluded that I don't want them to talk at all ??? What sort of cock-eyed logic is that ??

That's arrant nonsense and you know it, it's just cherry-picking.

Please tell me what your qualifications are in trauma counselling ? Are you BACP Registered?
https://www.bacp.co.uk/about-therapy/trauma-and-ptsd/