Why is religion still a thing?

[Scarletthoo2]

As the title states, I would like to know why people still choose religion rather than science, please give me your personal view and opinions.

I was christened at birth, but grown up an atheist. I'm just curious to know why so many people still believe in religion and god. Considering there's undeniable evidence that everything on earth is simply made of atoms and particles and wasn't created by an otherworldly person.

Hopefully this doesn't cause offence to some people, like I've said, just simply want others views.

@Scarletthoo2 You do realize that there are scientists who espouse panpsychism; that everything in the world has consciousness.
I additionally am a polytheist and don't believe in a creator god but that the universe has always been. So no issues for me.
And don't get started on quantum physics ... your "everything is molecules" is dated 19th century science and dated atheism .
for me religion gives the world a richer taste and view due to the divine play of the gods and consciousness of all. It's the difference between enjoying a fine gourmet meal vs. a new england boiled dinner

Tbh I sometimes wonder the opposite. Why do people insist that everything can be explained through scientific methodology and discount anything that can’t. Is it arrogance? Fear? Ignorance? In the history of mankind not believing in a “god)s)” is a real anomaly.

I’m not a big fan of organised religion (usually it’s largely only a reflection of man’s ego concealing ultimate truth)but I believe in a source, a higher power. Because I feel it. It’s my experience. It’s irrelevant to me whether it’s replicable, whether anyone else feels it or not. I can’t prove any of it. To paraphrase Jung, I don’t need to believe in “God.” I just know.

I believe science is great for understanding the laws of the material but I believe there is so much more out there. To only see through “narrow chinks in our caven” is to miss out on so much of life. To only believe in what is measurable is to miss out on much real beauty.

Because I really feel the Holy Spirit. Science can’t explain why I see beauty peace and hope.
I find some of the teachings and history intriguing and it helps me to be a better person.

Faith and religion aren't the same. Religion is made by man, often used as a tool to manipulate through fear and ignorance.

There's a really crucial point to accept here, too- you don't know what other people believe. When you dismiss their faith, you are only dismissing your understanding of their faith.
It's beyond hard to clarify what belief feels like, or what you actual believe in. It's based on a lifetime of reading, teaching, reflection and experience. A ten year old may be able to describe their faith very simply, and you may find it basic and easily argued against. By the time someone is 60 it's profoundly different. The chances of you actually knowing what they believe without a long, long respectful listening exercise are slim to non existent. So when you dismiss it as ignorant, illogical, unscientific, ridiculous, you'be probably misunderstood.

I think this is a really important point. Often people of faith are written off as non critical thinkers who blindly hollow prepackaged ideas without question.

however I think people of faith are often the most questioning. I’ve spent decades researching, practicing, meditating (discursive meditation), studying religions, philosophy, art, music, language, psychology and some science. Everyday I contemplate ideas and meanings, it is a big part of my life (and book shelves), It shapes my life. The mix is probably unique to me. I understand meaning and need for darkness and light. I see the world in a different way, My beliefs would never stand up to scientific study, but why would they? I’m unique and so are my beliefs. They for a small piece in this whole jigsaw puzzle. To try and force this beautiful universe into pie charts and graphs is missing the point.

I've got a degree in theology, been on many a religious conference, heard a lifetime's worth of Sunday sermons, read oodles of books and articles, prayed about things that trouble me... studied scripture passages alone and with others. I have a good friend that I met through church and have frequently studied alongside.
We don't believe the same thing, don't interpret things the same way, and can't speak for each other. We reach our own understanding after discussion.

My faith, or hers, is not something someone else can just disprove.

I'm a teacher in the church, but I teach people how to think, reflect and study, how to relate what they come across to their own lives, how to engage with scripture and grow.
I don't tell them what to believe. I sometimes tell them how to behave, mind- or at least to challenge their own behaviour! Usually when I've come across something in myself that needs challenging...

The GPS data on our phones is an illusion. Just like when we see planes fly. They are illusions. We are told these are the results of science but science and maths are just esoteric squiggles. Whenever we receive a message on our phones or use our fingers to type on our phone it is magic, not science.

Because no form of science can ‘prove’ a negative?

The New Testament ‘proves’ nothing at all, either, other than that some believers wrote down justifications for their belief in the divinity of an itinerant preacher for whom there are a total of two mentions in non-Christian historical sources which are generally, though not universally, considered credible. The closest NT text to the lifetime of Jesus dates from a generation after his death.

OP, wishful thinking, cultural indoctrination and fear of death.

Because religion still serves the same purposes for which humans invented it in the first place. A need for something 'more' than the here and now, an explanation for things which don't yet have satisfactory explanations, a reason not to fear death, a way of judging others' behaviour and feeling that they'll get eventual justice even if not in this lifetime, a feeling of shared belief and community, loads of cultural stuff, a feeling of superiority and moral righteousness over others. Not all of those apply to all religious people, obviously.

The problem is, there's nothing obvious to replace religion with that supplies all those things or fills the big hole it would leave in some people's lives if it wasn't there. So what real motivation is there to ditch it, even if there is not a shred of evidence that any of it's true?

The books of the bible were chosen from many available books and do not fit together really. There wasn't even complete agreement over which books to add.

It was like adding some Enid Blyton/Mills & Boon you had lying around, a couple of books of poetry and a bus timetable. You have 4 versions of the gospels that don't even match each other. The book of Ruth is a good story, but hardly a message from the creator.

Of course after the fact people assume god meant it that way but none of those authors knew their book would be assembled into 'The Bible'

It's not an either /or situation OP. Science is based on assumption and develops in a non scientific way due to political & funding issues. Religious doctrine is what the thirst for political power has done to spirituality. Dogma is dogma whether its religious or scientific.

All the so called proofs of god work just as well for proof of Odin and so on. That's all the ones that start "there must be a creator because..."

There's no actual evidence and if there were it would be the end of all other religions. We sometimes hear about respecting other religions, but of course if yours is true then every other religion is a malicious fake created to lure you away from the one true god. If their religion is true then yours is the fake.

Eye witness accounts from the bible mean nothing when we have no reason to suppose those witnesses existed either and no reason to trust them if we did. Also of course you can find stories of witnesses who have met other gods. You only reject theirs because your god was taught to you first.

Indeed! I find the Bible fascinating and am relatively well-read in it due to an extremely devout upbringing and teaching literature (which relies so often on familiarity with Biblical references), and the history of the Bibical canon and its exclusions and inclusions is really interesting, and deeply human. Not evidence of divine anything.

And good post, @Fairislefandango. Many people have an impulse to ‘seek meaning’. You see it on here all the time on ‘woo’ threads in which the most random minor occurrences and coincidences are viewed as evidence that a dead loved one is communicating — a common garden bird on a grave, a feather on the lawn, a favourite song on the radio, an animal spacing out for a minute. Which has become a ‘belief’ that, for instance, a white feather means ‘the universe wants to tell you something’, based purely on ‘it said it on the internet’.

Humans are story tellers. We construct narratives for everything, it’s how we make sense of the world. Religion is storytelling writ large.

I joined so many churches when I was young, trying to find my way. By the time I was 30 I was a virulent atheist; I think I lashed out at what I felt was a huge con trick. I hated religion and pitied those who believed because I felt they were still hostage to the pretty lies I’d fallen for. Not my finest hour.

Now, I’m still an atheist but I acknowledge my desire to believe in something bigger and truer. I’m not angry about it anymore, I recognise it’s part of human nature. I see the good parts - community, stability, sense of belonging - as well as the bad.

Beliefs will always be around. Their nature will change over time but the urge to seek patterns and stories will remain.

I'm an agnostic atheist too. And I'm perfectly happy accepting that I don't know and that it is impossible to know.

It would be nice if religious organisations (it's mostly organisations rather than people) would keep their noses out of people's lives and allow everyone to take responsibility for their own choices, especially with regards to all matters relating to sex and relationships. That would really make the world a better place.

My response to anyone who says "what about the crime, disease, hunger and poverty-why would God let these things happen?", is "God would ask us the same thing- why is there hunger, poverty and crime? why is there still many forms of disease, when we have the knowledge and capability for eradicating a lot of it. No excuse for it to exist is there?Man is greedy and man can be selfish"

Personally I don't see science and religion as being mutually exclusive.

For me religion provides a base set of behavioural rules (don't steal, don't cheat don't kill etc) without these basic rules you are left with common decency (which is better than indecency) but which varies from person to person and I personally don't think is "enough ".

Religion also has an important community and inclusivity role cutting across social background, age, income, race etc.

Whether god really exists to me is less important than the benefits to society that I think religion offers.

FWIW I also think Father Christmas also has an important role in instilling good behaviour in children (be good to your siblings = presents, be bad = no presents)

Science on the other hand is incredibly important and tells me how stuff works.

"As for God being vindictive for not dealing with life's inexplicable horrors"

Many are quite explicable. For example there's a parasite that blinds children. Either it evolved or god created it on purpose.

For balance though there is a popular explanation for such suffering.

It goes "if god makes a child die slowly in agony that brings family and friends closer to him" Which of course makes it ok.

The amount of mental gymnastics required for people to ‘explain’ divine omnipotence and divine benevolence frequently amuses me.

Religion also has an important community and inclusivity role cutting across social background, age, income, race etc.

I don't think it does. Faith does. Religion, as in organised religion, absolutely does not. It sets people apart from each other in 'them and us' groups and promotes an unjustifiable sense of moral superiority over others in many cases.

As for inclusivity - tell that to my disabled son, who was approached by a religious proselytiser who basically told him that if only he believed in Jesus, he wouldn't be in a wheelchair.

Your view of belief is rose tinted.

I hate these sneery ‘sky fairy’ posts on mumsnet about religion. People who have faith are not all dumb, dribbling morons without critical thinking.

I think people ignore and forget about all the faith-driven volunteer work that goes on in this country with the least and the lost. Food banks, night shelters, street pastors, aid donations, community outreach to the elderly and families…etc

Religion is about community, togetherness, ritual and believing in something higher than yourself. It’s very healthy and life affirming.

“As for inclusivity - tell that to my disabled son, who was approached by a religious proselytiser who basically told him that if only he believed in Jesus, he wouldn't be in a wheelchair.”

One nut job does not speak for all mainstream Christians.

I think people ignore and forget about all the faith-driven volunteer work that goes on in this country with the least and the lost. Food banks, night shelters, street pastors, aid donations, community outreach to the elderly and families…etc

All of these things are also done by people without faith, you know. That's the superiority complex, right there.

And while I agree that one nutjob does not speak for all of Christianity, it is Christianity that is driving abortion underground again in the US, it is Christians who are harrassing women in the UK who are going for perfectly legal abortions (or other support), it is Christians who are restricting the lives of gay people in the US. Mainstream Christianity has a lot to answer for. I am fine with people having their faith, but religious people have zero right to impose their beliefs on others, and that is still happening. It more than offsets the good things some Christians do.

Unless, like many, you believe in a perennial philosophy, then all religions carry a grain of truth but none are the whole truth.

Regardless who Jesus was (and most think he existed - who he was is more open to debate), it is the stories and the messages both in the cannon and, for many the other similar contemporary works that actually matter.

yes much of religion in the West has watered done these messages for various reasons but the messages in the bible are still very valuable, can be read in many different ways.

For me I have proof god exists because every time I imagine and create I have proof! Whether that is proof for anyone else, it’s not really my business, they are on their own path. But I’m always curious why certain people are so intent on trying to persuade others they’re right (this applies to many atheists and religions a like)