Why is religion still a thing?

[Scarletthoo2]

As the title states, I would like to know why people still choose religion rather than science, please give me your personal view and opinions.

I was christened at birth, but grown up an atheist. I'm just curious to know why so many people still believe in religion and god. Considering there's undeniable evidence that everything on earth is simply made of atoms and particles and wasn't created by an otherworldly person.

Hopefully this doesn't cause offence to some people, like I've said, just simply want others views.

Let's look at this statement:
"They are new places that our experience doesn’t allow us to access directly, but according to these theoretical ideas, might be there.”
It's by
"Brian Greene, a string theorist from Columbia University, offers up a relatively simple explanation of just what a fourth dimension could entail—and where it could be."
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a42709141/what-the-fourth-dimension-looks-like/

"They are new places that our experience doesn’t allow us to access directly, but according to these theoretical ideas, might be there.”

Indeed, and this explains the existence of god, how? Potential existence of a new dimension which may contain all sorts of stuff, yes of course, but multi dimensions that we don't yet understand is no more logical a place for a god than it would be for anything else you can think of. Dragons maybe?

I think you’re probably correct in that the mere existence of another dimension, or indeed multiple universes would not in itself prove the existence of God ) not of course, would it exclude it).

However, subject to one’s definition of God, I think the perception of these things outside of the 5 physical senses or rational mind does go some way to proving it.

As I said, I think much of this depends on your definition of God. I can’t really help in the context of some personal God, separate from us, because that’s not really my thing, my understanding of God is more influenced by Hermeticism and Neoplatonism (although maybe not 100% either). It’s difficult to explain, but let’s call God “The All” to avoid confusion with more personal Gods.

Everything Emanates from The All, everything that ever exists, has existed or will exist is part of The All (clues in the title). good and bad.Rather like the flame of a candle, it’s light bright closer to the candle lighting up the nothingness of a void, slowly, imperceptibly getting dimmer the further from The Source (the more common name in Neoplatonic thought).

Because we are part of The All we are part of everything, we can perceive all things in everything. We too are gods (this I think is Jesus). In Blake’s words “to see a world in a grain of sand”, in Jesus’s words, “the kingdom of god is within you”, lots of references to this thought process in both East and western philosophy.

Now who can see this? Who can walk between these worlds? Well I think we all potentially can, some much more easily than others, Aldous Huxley makes this point far more eloquently than I could ever hope to do in The Doors of Perception (obviously following the original concept from Blake. He laments his inability to naturally see these things as Blake, Swedenborg, Eckhart etc do as he takes his 4/10ths of a gram of mescaline (if you haven’t read this book I would very much recommend it, particularly with an edition that inc its sequel- Heaven and Hell.

Because we are all one everything reflects everything else. As above, So below as it says of the Emerald Green Tablet of Hermeticism or “on earth ad it is in Heaven” as it’s says in the Lord’s Prayer. Once you grasp the light of The All is everywhere, reflected and within all things you see the face of God, every second of every day and you can never un see it.

Sorry that’s completely rambling stuff and a v poor facsimile of my true understanding of its nature.

@OMG12 I appreciate you taking the time to show the meaning as you understand it. I am so far away from the journey you've taken that to be honest I'm still in bed having a cup of tea! I hope I become more tolerant of beliefs that others hold, but it will take reciprocity for a peaceful existence for us all to develop, those of different faiths (personal and organised) and those of none.

Me too, I think that there’s just an acceptance that everything is as it should be right now. In a different now, what people see as the past and future things will be different as things change. None of us can stand in the same place so we all offer our own perspectives. All of these perspectives are needed to build up a true picture. I think it was F Scott Fitzgerald who offered this advice regarding a tree and can be seen in most of his writing. An atheistic perspective offers as much to the world as a theistic one, the important thing is finding your own path, and I wish you well with whatever that might be. And thank you for being tolerant of my weirdness 😀

Sorry for being obscure. I was showing via cosmology and then physics that science needs imagination, that science changes and that our ideas about the world should be not fixed but in flux.
I don't believe in a creator god, but if all matter is conscious then perhaps we can evolve to another level, another dimension as demigods along with the gods like Heraclitus thought.
Or perhaps the neoplatonists are correct with the divine monad. It's all wonderful to contemplate.

I love thinking through all of these things. It’s incredible really. We know so little it’s really hard to actually exclude possibilities

This is a commonly repeated statement.

"If you believe in Jesus and accept that he died for everyone's sins, your own included, then you will be saved and you will be there."

I'm not the first person to point out that 'Satan' qualifies then and so could a murderer who believed it was true but hated god.

That's in addition to the murderers were said they were sorry at the last minute including the one who murdered me.

Also the dog that killed my child will be there too because it was someone's pet.

Since those who qualify would be going to live with me in heaven for eternity I'm thinking heaven is not a nice place to move to.

Just making the point really that believers repeat nice sounding phrases without really thinking them through and how they would fit into the nice sounding phrases used yesterday.

Hey! that's it isn't it. Heaven is only pretending to be the good place to see who falls for it.

"If you believe in Jesus and accept that he died for everyone's sins, your own included, then you will be saved and you will be there."

It was me who said that, and I'm sorry, I forgot to add the really important part. You need to repent of all your sins - it's not enough to just believe in God or Jesus (even Satan does that as you said). Satan doesn't qualify because he doesn't repent.

That's in addition to the murderers were said they were sorry at the last minute including the one who murdered me.

It would only include them if they genuinely repent. Genuinely! Only God knows someone's heart and intentions. And er... are you a ghost posting?

Also the dog that killed my child will be there too because it was someone's pet.

It would not be there 'because it was someone's pet'. Animals aren't humans and aren't judged as we are - it's unclear as to what happens to them after death.

Since those who qualify would be going to live with me in heaven for eternity I'm thinking heaven is not a nice place to move to.

I feel you're looking at it from the perspective of people still being as they were on Earth and maintaining their sinful ways. They will not be like that, but transformed by their belief in and acceptance of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I don't think anyone can adequately imagine what it will be like in Heaven, personally I believe it will be so incredible that human language cannot describe it.

Great answers @CrunchyCarrot, I concur.

But what qualifies as true repentance? Also how do you know what it will be like in heaven?

"The way I see (to quote another book) the 'Why do bad things happen to good people?' question, is that the world God created (I believe creation and science go hand in hand) has to be self-supporting."

Variations on this are commonly used to explain suffering, but they all ignore that god actively created the nastier ways people (including children) can die.

It also means that claims of god interfering for good or ill can't be true.

No prayer was ever or can be answered and every case of healing (including Jesus healing people) was fake.

Unless he only helps those he takes a liking too in which case we're back to why does he hate kids so much.

I assume it means the Great Flood was fake too as that would be interference and all that stuff with the Israelites. Passover would be interference so that obviously didn't happen. That would be a bit of a blow to some.

But what qualifies as true repentance? Also how do you know what it will be like in heaven?

With the disclaimer that I'm not a Biblical authority nor scholar! True repentance as I understand it follows on from realising you have committed a sin and are not only sorry for what you did but also seek to turn away from that sin completely. Your behaviour has to change and also your heart, so you are committed to not sinning again and will do whatever is necessary to make up for what you have done.

Thanks for asking that question, actually. I found a good explanation of what constitutes repentance and what does not. Quite long but thought-provoking.

https://www.ccbbc.edu/user/pages/resources/h-c-chiles/topical/The%20Doctrine%20of%20Repentance%20(Part%201).pdf?items

I don't know what it will be like in Heaven, of course, no-one does, but I believe it will mean I get a new spirit body and it will mean a continual discovery of God, his creation and Jesus. I used to think, when I was a child, won't it be boring up there after awhile? There will be infinite things to discover and know.

@CrunchyCarrot your explanation of repentance is good, but it doesn't address the problem that the concept of sin is basically a nonsense. According to your god, my children shouldn't ever be allowed to have sex with someone they love, because they are gay. Bollocks to that.

But @CrunchyCarrot what about good/ moral Jews/ Muslims/ Sikkhs / Bhuddist/ Hindus / Jain's/ Pagans/ Ba'hai's / Atheists etc. Who also truly , truly repent for their sins, and do all they can to make things right. Should a Muslim never make it to heaven because they have been taught Jesus was a prophet as opposed to part of the trinity ?

What about "good" Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons who believe in Jesus but not the trinity? xx

I would say talk to committed Christians who are also gay. I'm not gay so can't give any special insight into this. God loves us all, no matter what our sexual orientation is.

Jesus said, “I am the truth, the way, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me” (John 14:6) and “For unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins” (John 8:24). The Apostle Peter echoed these words when he said, “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved” (Acts 4:12, KJV).

If there was another way to come to God other than via Jesus, then Jesus didn't need to die.

There's also the idea that if you are a 'good' person you should be accepted into Heaven even if you don't believe. Thing is, none of us are 'good' as we are all separated from God by sin (sin means separation from God). It's not enough to be 'good', because you will not be able to be perfect enough for God, no human can be. The only way past this is by accepting Jesus died for our sins, for all time. His sacrifice makes us acceptable in God's eyes.

I don't know much about JWs and Mormons so can't really comment apart from saying that the core belief of Jesus dying for our sins is what really matters. But I reiterate I am no scholar and not an intellectual! I'm not keen on discriminating against fellow believers within Christianity, there are problems in all denominations because human beings can dilute and pervert God's word.

“If there was another way to come to God other than via Jesus, then Jesus didn't need to die.”

But why? Presumably you believe in an omnipotent God. Therefore He can make all the rules He wants.

Why then does he set that rule, the rule meaning his son was tortured to death when his own son begged him to find another way? Why didn’t He just say, everyone who is nice can come into heaven. Why do we need to worship Him? Is He some kind of egotistical megolmaniac?

Is he some kind of egotistical megolmaniac?
It's an explanation that works, sometimes the simple answers are correct.

Yep and this is why it’s important to distinguish religion from spirituality where the only ego you need to be concerned with is your own😀

Gay Christians have a wealth of difference experience. Some I know have been shunned by their church/friends/family, or told they need to be celibate, or even to "stop being gay".

@thekindlyone well, exactly. And it's all very well to say that God loves everyone, but his representatives on earth clearly do not. If he exists, I really think an intervention is required. Smiting chunks of Uganda would be a great start.

Smiting chunks of Uganda would be a great start.

Yeah maybe start with the people responsible for this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-65455631
Including the American Christian groups who helped to push for it.