Why is 'Evangelical' an insult in the UK?

[Flangelica]

I've lived abroad for a few years now, but from what I've seen online, 'Evangelical' seems to be a very loaded word, which i only see used as an insult or in a negative way

Can anyone tell me why?

Especially keen to hear from people who belong to this type of church, their feelings about this.

Christianity has been officially recognised as the world's most persecuted group. It is absolutely not some made up "complex". Between 2019 amd 2020, 4,761 Christians were killed for their faith, 4,488 Churches or Christian buildings were attacked, 4,277 Christians were unjustly arrested, detained or imprisoned, 1,710 Christians were abducted for faith-related reasons. On average, every day, 13 Christians are killed for their faith, 12 churches or Christians buildings are attacked, 12 Christians are unjustly arrested, detained or imprisoned, and 5 Christians are abducted for faith-related reasons.

Yes, but not in the UK. This thread is about why Evangelicals are disliked in the UK, not why Christians are persecuted.

Do you feel that there is a place in UK society for devout Christians, or do you feel that moving to the UK would be a mistake/disappointment/difficulty?

These days Evangelical tends to be broad term for Calvinist churches in the UK. Doubtless there is prejudice towards all Christians, as any group, but there are specific reasons why Evangelicals are regarded with suspicion, more than traditional Christians.

Calvinist churches generally beleive that they are specially chosen by God to be the 'Elect' because only they know The Truth. They believe that anyone who doesn't believe what they say is damned and only they are saved.

Of course any Christian can be a dick about their religion and many Evangelicals are not but I think many people's genuine experience of Evangelical Christians informs the perception.

there is no evidence whatsoever that the words you quoted were ever spoken by somebody called Jesus. The written evidence for Jesus' life is patchy and contradictory, all of it dating from years after his death, and none of it coming from eyewitnesses. The archeological evidence for Jesus is non-existent

That's not true at all. A quick google would show you that we have much better evidence for the existence fo Jesus compared to most historical figures of the time.

That doesn't mean he was magic but it's silly to pretend he never existed (in so far as we can be sure of anything from that long ago).

Despite living more recently there is much worse evidence for Mohammed existing. He probably did but it's much less certain.

Do you feel that there is a place in UK society for devout Christians, or do you feel that moving to the UK would be a mistake/disappointment/difficulty? Because I'm feeling a little bit of anti Christian feeling just from this thread and it's making me wonder whether the UK might not be the best move for our family. Any Christians on the thread have any advice?

I mean.... define devout. Evangelical does not equate to devout. There are plenty of devout folk who aren't evangelical. So yes, I'd say there IS a place in the UK for devout Christians. I go to church pretty much every week, I pray during the week, try and live my life according to the gospel... does that make me devout? I don't feel like it does - I'm just trying to do my best.
I'm also in a same sex relationship and have experienced no issues with folk at church or my work place (I work for the CofE), but there are certain churches that I would avoid going to because I know they'd try and use the bible to convince me I'm a terrible sinner and shouldn't be in a relationship, and I simply don't believe that to be the case. And that's one of the stumbling blocks between those who take the bible literally, and those who don't.
As a female, if I take the verse 'Do not lie with a man as you would with a woman' literally,... well of course not. I'd never lie with a man as I would with a woman.
I don't know where you live at the moment, but I wonder if the question is whether you're prepared to be in society which is post-certainty in terms of what truth is, and are prepared to live in 'live and let live' sort of place. By all means take the bible literally and try and live accordingly, but be prepared for people to disagree with you. The church of england has those from all viewpoints, both evangelical and liberal, and we all rub along (more or less) well together.

Hello! Thank you so much for sharing. To answrr your question, youre of course right that evangelical does not equal devout. My inital question was genuinely about why 'evangelical' seems to have a negative connotation in the UK. But some of the posts (while appreciated - I know I asked) seemed quite anti- Christianity in general which made me wonder.

If you don't mind me asking, as a Christian in a same sex relationship have you had any negative experiences in your church community or from other Christians, or is everyone very open-minded and accepting?

Sorry! Another question. I'm really interested in this: "that's one of the stumbling blocks between those who take the bible literally, and those who don't."

I was wondering if you don't take yhe bible literally, where do you personally draw your information from - how do you decide which parts to take literally and which to not? Do you take any of the bible literally? (I'm so sorry for the interrogation, I'm genuinely really interested in other views from other Christians, i hope this isn't horribly intrustive! I always took the bible very literally but it seems that this is quite uncommon in the UK and I've always wondered how others form their belief systems; I believe we are all on a journey of learning and can learn from each other's experiences and thoughts. If you don't mind sharing I'd love to hear your thoughts!)

For me the word isn't just about evangelical Christians but anyone who tries to spread the word about anything (e.g. running, the keto diet).

My mum often jokes that you can spot a CofE convert a mile off because all the born catholics talk about their holidays after mass.

Just because some men hundreds of years after Jesus’s death added the names of the disciples to the gospels, it doesn’t mean they wrote them. I have read and studied the bible in detail - I had to, as I went to a faith school. The person who taught us that the gospels were unlikely to be written by Jesus’s contemporaries was our school chaplain. A very wise member of the cathedral clergy, who also baptised and confirmed me.

Not every denomination of Christianity rejects science (including archaeology).

I’m not a Christian now, but that doesn’t mean I’m ignorant about it, however inconvenient that might be for your recruiting efforts.

Do you feel that there is a place in UK society for devout Christians, or do you feel that moving to the UK would be a mistake/disappointment/difficulty? Because I'm feeling a little bit of anti Christian feeling just from this thread and it's making me wonder whether the UK might not be the best move for our family. Any Christians on the thread have any advice?

I don't think you'd encounter open hostility to Christians so much as polite bafflement or utter disinterest. I barely know anyone who is openly Christian at all, never mind evangelically so. It's just not something people tend to talk about.

Look. Most people won't care less if you are a Christian or not. You do you.
Just don't go talking about it at work, the school pick up, every event etc and you'll be fine. Also don't go picketing clinics or trying to force people to live according to your views. That's when people will get extremely pissed off.
No one is going round with fiery torches trying to find Christian's to persecute but Don't expect to find many like minded people either. The UK is very unreligious and very few people attend churches.

And taking the bible as the literal word of god is not an especially ancient practice, in the context of the origins of Christianity. It’s only a couple of hundred years old and developed largely in the US, so it shouldn’t be surprising that most Christians, especially in Europe, are not literalists.

Lovely post,

I am a Christian.

To me, evangelism is trying to live out my faith (including admitting I'm a sinner and get it wrong all the time) being open about my own faith, and sharing with others if they are interested in knowing more.

Two main issues:

1. They tend only to believe that people who fall in with their very narrow set of dogmas are 'true' Christians and are convinced that everyone else - Christian or not - is going to hell, and many seem to actively enjoy that. I prefer my faith a little more nuanced than that.

1. I think their worship style is a sort of spiritual junk food. It's all about getting people hyped up and never seems to cover the more contemplative side of life - it certainly never goes anywhere near doubt, which I've always been taught is a healthy part of faith. It's instant gratification with no nourishment. Oven chips for the soul.

There are Christians in my life for whom I have great respect. Some of them are even religious leaders in their faiths. The reason I respect them as people is twofold. First, their faith seems to focus not on religion, but on action. These are people who spend most of their time doing what most of us would describe as charity work. Second, they don’t evangelize. They don’t try to convert or spread the word of their faith. They simply live their own lives. If people come and ask questions and want to learn more about how to live like them, they will answer and obviously there are weekly services where anyone is welcome to attend to learn more.

That passivity is key. I may think them their actual beliefs bring their sanity mildly into question, but they are happy, it works for them, and they aren’t trying to coerce anyone else into joining so it doesn’t really matter. We are all allowed to be a little bit crazy as long as we aren’t hurting anyone in the process.

It's not quite true that very few people attend churches.
IIRC about 5% of UK population are regular churchgoers, that's several million people. Traditional churches are mostly bottoming out the long term decline of social attendance/ageing out, but new churches are growing, some are extremely popular.

Possibly due to people being a bit discreet about religious observance, non churchgoers might not realise quite how much is going on. Certainly in any reasonable size town or city you won't have difficulty finding a choice of churches

@Flangelica
If you don't mind me asking, as a Christian in a same sex relationship have you had any negative experiences in your church community or from other Christians, or is everyone very open-minded and accepting?
I've not had any negative experiences in my church community, though I'm not openly 'out' (my partner vary rarely comes to church). Those who do know (including the vicar and readers) have been nothing but affirming and including. I'm not naive enough to think everyone will be the same. Given the demographic of the church, it's likely there will be some in the congregation who will disapprove, but I can live with that. As long as the message 'from the top' is that all are welcome, and they're prepared to stand by that and actually mean it, that's ok.
Negative experiences from other Christians? Yes - and generally evangelical christians. That's why I don't go to that sort of church!

I was wondering if you don't take yhe bible literally, where do you personally draw your information from - how do you decide which parts to take literally and which to not? Do you take any of the bible literally?
You say a little further down in your post that you were always taught to take the bible very literally, and I'm wondering if that really is true. Is it just the new testament you take literally, or the old as well? Would you and your husband take the verses in Lev 15:19-33 literally, for example? And if not, why not? Where do you decide to draw the line?
I'm not trying to be sarcastic or argumentative here; I don't think anyone takes the entire bible literally - it would be nightmare, for a start! We all make decisions on where we draw the line, even those who claim to take it literally.
(There's a really good book on this I read earlier in the year called 'The year of living biblically' by AJ Jacobs, a jewish chap who tries to live literally as per the bible. It's really interesting to see what he wrestles with, and how the laws set out in the torah are explained and expanded through the talmud, and may not actually mean what we (as christians) think they mean on first reading).

I think it needs to be remembered what the bible is, when it was written, by whom and for whom. Paul, for example, when writing his letters, was not thinking 'one day this will be scripture and people will read it in hundreds of years time'. He was responding to quite specific situations in churches or writing to them about their circumstances.
Does that mean they should be discounted entirely? No. I think it's a bit like someone reading letters my grandparents wrote me when I was a kid. Some of the stuff is specific to that time - talking about a christmas present they gave me, for example, or somewhere I'd been, but other parts of it are more 'universal'; that nature is lovely, how to look after plants, that God loves us (my GPs were christians).
I think the bible's like that. Some of it is specific to a particular time (like the stuff in Leviticus about periods, or Paul talking about women praying with their heads covered (I don't know any women who does that these days). But a lot of it, about how you should treat people, loving one another, social justice, generosity, mercy, humility and so on, are more 'overarching' themes and threads which are relevant to us today, imo.

Where do I take my ‘boundaries’ from as I don’t take the bible literally?

1. Put the person before the principle

2.Is it kind, good, helpful, peaceful etc? 3.Free will is to be respected including in myself as well as others choices.

I would say all that is foundational to the teaching of Jesus but no use of being right is what you want the most.

if not of

Thing is OP in the Uk no-one will give a flying hoot if you are Christian evangelical.
If you talk about it they will be slightly bemused/ambivalent/non plussed by it
If you talk a lot about it they will think you are a bore or a bit weird and avoid you
If you try to convert them or persuade them to 'accept the teachings of Jesus' expect people to seriously avoid you or tell you fuck off. I don't know a single person who wouldn't be in the latter category if you tried to 'evangelise'
The choice is yours
Of course, I would say that it's the ambivalence that would likely instigate some kind of persecution complex and you'd be desperately wanting a reaction because evangelism is all about persuasion and conversion. Don't try to argue that that is persecution. You are free to speak and try but others are also free to think that you are taking nonsense and to say so openly.

This.

I just wanted to see why this word 'Evangelical' is viewed with such hostility in the UK and what I'm getting from a lot of the later posts is that this seems to be a real hostility/suspiciousness/lack of understanding/dislike/wanting to prove wrong Christianity in general?

In that case what you are getting is are not correct. Very few people mind Christians. People do mind preachy ones who try to convert them though.

OP, @AnaïsM was being very, very sarcastic.

As a female, if I take the verse 'Do not lie with a man as you would with a woman' literally,... well of course not. I'd never lie with a man as I would with a woman.

@Catinabeanbag this is brilliant. It never occurred to me that the Bible’s famous ban on male homosexuality was also carte blanche for lesbians!

@Flangelica what exactly are you looking to achieve from life in the U.K? If you want to go peacefully about your own particular brand of Christianity then I’m sure that will be entirely possible and you will be able to find people who follow the same religious lifestyle as you do.

However if you plan to make it your business to convert others to your religion, and it upsets you to be surrounded by people who you think are going to hell because they don’t believe what you do, you’re in for a rough ride.

In other words, keep it to yourself/within the community and all will be well. But I don’t think that’s how evangelism works, is it?

I don't fully buy your naivety here OP. You grew up in and were a young adult in the UK. Times and attitudes towards Evangelism and Fundamentalist Christianity, haven't changed much in the last 10 years and I'm not entirely convinced you, as a teenager and a young 20 something, had no clue or exposure to this. You are a year younger than me, grew up in the same country, surrounded by a similar culture as I did. My generation are all well aware of the 'preachy' Christian's trying to shame and convert us poor sinners. The ones that stand in the street screaming at us about going to hell. Every town centre has a group of them, there is no chance you never experienced that.