Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Original poster

Churches who don’t allow women to be elders

117 replies

TheBeautifulMoors · 23/05/2022 07:29

We’ve recently joined a new church and my main niggle initially was that it’s not really diverse.

Then I found out that people who haven’t yet been baptised cannot take communion.

However, my biggest concern now is that women are not allowed to be elders.
Apparently, this is what the “New Testament” teaches us”. I grew up in a Methodist church and my mum was one of the elders. I probably shouldn’t be surprised but I really am.

Their children/youth programme is very good and they guide the children well. There are also quite a lot of children, which isn’t that common in many churches today.

Do you attend a church with this belief? Or would this out you off?

I prayed about the communion bit and was ready to let that go because DC can have communion at home but I don’t know if I want DD growing up in a church where women can’t be elders, even though I have no intention at all of becoming one.

OP posts:
Elisheva · 23/05/2022 07:47

When you say Apparently that’s it’s because it’s what the New Testament teaches us, have you actually read the New Testament and the parts around women in the church and in leadership?

BobLep0nge · 23/05/2022 07:53

I would not attended a church with that belief. I wouldn't want my DC to think girls/women are lesser in any way.

SweatyChamoisPad · 23/05/2022 07:58

The communion thing isn’t unusual - catholics have to be baptised and also to have made their first communion - they are two of the seven sacraments.

Ragwort · 23/05/2022 08:00

Yes it absolutely would put me off. I would look for another Church.

SellFridges · 23/05/2022 08:01

Discrimination on the basis of sex is illegal, outside of certain environments. Why should a church have different standards?

00100001 · 23/05/2022 08:07

Have they not heard of Priscilla and Aquila? Have they even read the Bible...?

Honestly, a collection of books written hundreds of years ago by men that has been translated many times by men, telling is only men can hold power... definitely believable and an accurate testimony of God's word.... 🙄

Elisheva · 23/05/2022 08:07

Because they are following what the Bible teaches?

CloseEncountersOfTheTurdKind · 23/05/2022 08:16

The no women elders wouldn't bother me as it's biblical. I'd have more of an issue with saying no communion unless baptised, as I think it's up to each individual to decide if they should take communion.

JennyForeigner · 23/05/2022 08:19

I'd be out of there at speed. We all know this stuff is selective. They aren't going to be 100% biblical literalists are they?

Someone will be making decisions in the background and they will be creepy af.

Justkeeppedaling · 23/05/2022 08:21

Then I found out that people who haven’t yet been baptised cannot take communion.

This is normal. Just get baptised if it bothers you.

User280905 · 23/05/2022 08:26

The no women elders wouldn't bother me as it's biblical

That's picking and choosing the parts they want to follow. I bet they don't live a biblical life all the rest of the time.

I dont think it's okay at all to not allow women to be elders. Are there many younger people? I can't imagine the younger women in my church allowing that to continue. But out church treats men and women equally in all roles so I suppose I'm coming at it from a different starting point.

ItWillBeOkHonestly · 23/05/2022 08:27

Theology student here!
There are two main views on the role of women in church; Complementarianism (C)
and Egalitarianism (E).

The C view argues from the Bible that men and women are equal in nature but have different roles in church/home/marriage but specifically, women cannot be 'in authority' over a man, E.g being an elder.

The E view argues that men and women are equal in nature and that things like biological sex are not a barrier to roles or church leadership.

If you try hard enough, you can actually argue both points and use the Bible to back up the argument though I'm personally 100% in the E camp! So it's just not true to say 'that's what's taught in the new testament'. Yes, it's in there but you can equally argue for the other side too if you apply a bit of context and some understanding of the original language it was written in.

I would be a bit wary of a church that made such a big deal of it especially because this idea of women 'not having authority over men' can often leak into other areas as well. Extreme C churches might even mandate that women shouldn't work outside the home and should defer to their husbands in everything, though admittedly that is an extreme, uncommon view.

If your kids are in their Sunday school and this is a core part of the church's doctrine, it's likely they will be taught this too. Personally, it wouldn't be for me but if you really like the church why not meet with one of the leaders and ask some questions? See how firmly they hold to this belief. That may well help to guide your choice.

CremeEggsForBreakfast · 23/05/2022 08:28

For me, it would very much depend on how the church had come to this stance. I met a CofE ordinand who was training under a branch that didn't allow women in leadership. The argument was that they (the man and the church he was a part of) had read all the scriptures relating to women in leadership and were still undecided so they took a "better safe than sorry" approach. I can respect that.

If a church blindly said "Thus sayeth the New Testament" it wouldn't matter how good the rest of the teaching was, I would be concerned about their ability to critically read the Bible, put scripture back into its historical and cultural context, and recognise that the books of the Bible were written in a language we do not speak and thus there are subtleties and nuances in it that we miss if we assume our English translation is literally true.

horseymum · 23/05/2022 08:28

Our church doesn't have female elders or deacons. It's great, those meetings go on forever!! Seriously though, we have women who do a similar role, they are fantastic role models, they just don't need a title. The church as a whole makes decisions so women are not excluded from the process. I would be more inclined to discuss communion with the leadership, plenty people take it who are not baptised at our church. You can ask to meet with the leadership before making a decision about commiting to going more regularly, then you can ask these questions.

Borris · 23/05/2022 08:30

Yes it would bother me too. Women are very much encouraged here in all parts of church leadership.

ofwarren · 23/05/2022 08:33

What denomination is it out of interest?
It's quite normal to not be allowed to have communion unless you are baptised.

LifeInsideMyhead · 23/05/2022 08:34

I would give it a wide birth. And wouldnt go with the "we just dont need a title" fudge as thats not respecting a job thats being done - if its fine for the women then dont give the men a title either.

Is it nee frontiers (or what ever they currently are?)

I was briefly in what seemed a very lovely family church like this once but the division runs deep. Fine for a few years a s a student may be but I wouldn't want my girls brought up in this!!! (Although guessing they wouldn't have a gay person as a minister either which is a whole other realm of prejudice.)

I went to a fantastic talk once about how it used to be argued in church that black people shshouldn'lead churches and it was taken as "biblical" and "the bible clearly says" ans was the norm. And shows you just how wrong we can be ...

romdowa · 23/05/2022 08:38

I'm Catholic and there's no women in any senior position and no communion unless baptised. In fact I'm getting married in my local church this year and dp is an atheist and my local priest won't give out communion during the mass because dp isn't a Catholic.

Igmum · 23/05/2022 08:46

It would absolutely bother me. Like you I grew up Methodist who, apart from a brief period at the start of the 19th century, have always had women leaders and speakers. I'm now part of an inclusive Anglican Church which actively includes women, LGBT etc. The early Church had plenty of women leaders and the old Pauline truism of letting women be silent in church is in the context of asking everyone to shut up during sermons. I would have serious doubts about a church set up in this way.

busybanana · 23/05/2022 08:57

We attended a church like this for several years, but ended up leaving. I looked into it and, like a PP, found that there is plenty of evidence that this is not what the NT actually teaches. In fact, the more I looked, the more convinced I became that it is Biblically wrong to exclude women from leadership positions (if you want to explore further, I can recommend the Centre for Biblical Equality - their website is very in-depth - and the Junia Project, which is more accessible). I also found that the beliefs ran very deep at the church, and influenced everything - for example, men/husbands were to be in charge at home as well as in the church. Ultimately, we (dh and I) concluded that this wasn't what we wanted our children to be taught, either explicitly or implicitly.

busybanana · 23/05/2022 08:59

Sorry - it's Christians for Biblical Equality, not the Centre for Biblical Equality. Oh for an edit button!

Thesefeetaremadeforwalking · 23/05/2022 09:05

Surely you 'checked-out' this church before you started attending OP?

If you didn't, then you really don't have room for complaint.

Every formal club/group/society/organisation will have a set of rules/procedure/protocols. If you don't like them, don't join.

There are plenty of other churches out there High/Low/Free/Non-denominational/JW/Trinitarian etc etc. I'm sure there is one 'out there' that will suit you better.

LifeInsideMyhead · 23/05/2022 09:06

Yes busy I found it "runs deep" like you. In one church there was a teen boy running the youth group with an adult woman in order to have a man running the group 🙄.
But more dangerous is the underlying beliefs that go with it, and women defering to men to lead in other areas. Or thinking they brlieve in equality yet by default expecting men to lead as that is what they've been taught.

Fizbosshoes · 23/05/2022 09:06

I've been to C of E, Baptist and free churches. Now I do not go at all. One of the things that I (and DH) had issue with in the last church was the roles of women. It was a C approach as @ItWillBeOkHonestly described. So women could lead women only small groups/bible studies, but a man had to lead mixed groups, no women were allowed to lead the service, or be Elders. But fine for them to do creche/Sunday school/flowers/coffees/refreshments.

Namenic · 23/05/2022 09:09

i Did struggle with this when I was growing up. But the way I see it - I don’t get to be the queen and neither do my kids. I guess I don’t see being an elder or the queen as something you get on merit. Like I don’t think Paul necessarily did good things to ‘deserve’ being called, and Peter didn’t have all the skills of speaking/preaching. They chose some apostles/assistants by lot.

I have been blessed to know and have had female vicars and leaders. But I understand the other side of the fence too - they are not necessarily saying women are less capable/inferior etc (though maybe you have to find out more from their attitude as a whole), just think that God has said for certain jobs to be done by men.