Bad things happening to good people.

[PaddlingLikeADuck]

Im sure this has been asked 100 times, but why does God let it happen?

I don’t come from a religious background at all. Most of my family are fairly nonchalant about religion apart from my mother who despises it and gets joy from making sure everyone knows it.

Although I have no sense of belief myself I often come on this board to read threads purely because I find it comforting to read people’s posts where their belief is so profound and they genuinely do believe there is a bigger power ‘out there.’ It must be amazing to have that belief, I imagine your lives are peaceful in the knowledge that better things are coming.

Anyhow, I just need it explaining to me why bad things are allowed to good people whereas some bad people float through life with nothing bad happening to them.

I class myself as a good person but I have a chronic condition that affects my life in so many negative ways and it’s knock on effects mean my husband and children are negatively affected too. I will have this condition for life and I find myself asking myself, “Why me? What did I do to deserve this?”

My auntie, who is so, so kind hearted has just left her husband and admitted he’s been physically abusing her for years. Why was she married to such a monster? Why was it allowed to happen?

A few years ago my friend’s infant, who was 14 months old, was killed in a car accident due to the reckless driver in the other vehicle. Her baby died and he walked away completely unharmed. He didn’t even go to prison? How is this fair?

I’m a paediatric nurse and I see death and severe illness in many children and I just think, “Why them? How can this be what God had planned for them?” So much unfair suffering for completely innocent children whilst their families watch them die.

I just can’t understand why God, if there is one, allows the lives of good people to be afflicted by such awfulness.

I have read one reasoning for this from a religious perspective of a omnipotent God is because God also granted humanity free will. And in so doing gave humans the responsibility to decide to do good or evil to each other. So bad things don’t just “happen” to good people, it’s people doing the bad things to the good people.

Years ago I was at the funeral for a woman who had died of a sudden and vicious cancer leaving a young family, and the vicar there was similarly at a loss to explain the mysterious ways in which God moved. I did rather think that if there was ever any time to play the "heaven is brilliant fun and she is there now having a cup of tea and a big slice of cake with the Angel Gabriel" line, now would be it! But no, this was not the approach he took.

No one knows the answer apart from God.

The study of religion is called theology as its just theories, faith is hope and belief is the leap from hope to seeing it (chosen religion) as truth.

I ponder a few theories about your question.

1. It's all a test, we're angels in training as it were
2. The world is the spiritual worlds chess board, we are just pawns, God is on one side evil on the other, and there is a battle for power
3. It's an intricately woven story that only makes sense at the end....

Hope that helps xx

There is no God. The concept is incompatible with reality.

But people find it comforting so come up with stories to make it fit. None of them stand up to scrutiny.

You don't deserve your disability.

@PaddlingLikeADuck Google Bible project and watch a short video on Job...might help

It's all a test, we're angels in training as it were

A test for what though?

What test justifies my friend’s baby being killed? Who is being tested? The baby? My friend? The other driver? Who passed and who failed?

And how am I being tested by with a disability that has such a big impact on my life? If I stay positive and cope with it I get to be an angel, but if I really struggle with my diagnosis I fail the test and go to hell?

The theory just doesn’t make sense?

And as for the Job video, it seems to say that suffering exists as a way of challenging a person’s belief in God. Will the person accuse God of injustice and pull away from him, or will they trust in God’s ‘big plan’ and be rewarded for that trust?

Yeah well those theories I mentioned are my personal "ideas" / "theories".... undeveloped completely....lots more thought to be had on them.

I'm glad you watched the Job video. You got the nessage 100% correct. Basically yes, essentially you will be rewarded for that trust.

It's a religion that helps cope with lifes tough situations by applying that perspective.

Because whatever happens to people in life it is nothing to do with God. Do you seriously believe someone is sitting "up there" looking at every single person on earth and making good, or bad, things happen to them based on what kind of person they are? Far too simplistic.

I just can’t understand why God, if there is one, allows the lives of good people to be afflicted by such awfulness

The problematic part of this question is the presumption of the existence of God. If you remove that and propose that God does not exist, the problem resolves itself, because the obvious solution is that things that happen to people which are outside of their own control are merely down to coincidence and accident of circumstance.

The universe functions perfectly well without needing to invent a 'God'. It's only when humans do this that all these irreconcilable issues and contradictions arise. Seems blindingly obvious to me what the conclusion should be.

No answers here. But I couldn't let this pass - theology means 'study of god' from Greek theos meaning god, not 'theory'!
Or was it a joke I missed?! If so, sorry!

The problematic part of this question is the presumption of the existence of God. If you remove that and propose that God does not exist, the problem resolves itself, because the obvious solution is that things that happen to people which are outside of their own control are merely down to coincidence and accident of circumstance.

I don’t particularly believe in God. I guess I’m just confused as to how people who truly do believe in God match that with so many innocent people suffering around the world.

But I guess their stance is that God has absolutely no control over what happens to people, he has no control over bad things happening to good people, but if those good people stay true to God they are rewarded (by become an angel?!) whereas those who question or lose their faith are punished.

That doesn’t sound like the approach of a loving God to me.

Who knows?

Maybe there is no god.

Maybe god doesn't care.

Maybe there is a big plan and we can't see it because we're such a tiny part of it it's like expecting a drop of solder to understand how a space rocket works.

Maybe god's a scientist and we are their experiment.

Maybe god is a child and we're their pets and the parents really need to take this ant farm off their damn kid!

Maybe we are god's single creation, split into billions of people and animals and tasked with experiencing absolutely every situation possible from wonderful to horrific only to reunite at the end of time and become the all knowing god of the next universe.

Who can say 🤷‍♀️.

"That doesn’t sound like the approach of a loving God to me"

Have you read the old testament? Less 'loving god' more 'smite, salt and wrath'

It's a classic question.
My understanding is that God suffers alongside us, s/he shares in our pain rather than inflicting it from above as a test, or watching dispassionately.
Through suffering we learn and grow as people. A world with no suffering would be one where we never grew up, never faced challenges, never overcame.
When we see suffering, we can choose whether we see God as 'inflicting' the situation or whether we see him in the people working to make things better- the fire fighters, medics, community that gathers around in times of tragedy.

God doesn't exist

People who believe in god will adjust their beliefs to fit in with whatever question is being asked

When we see suffering, we can choose whether we see God as 'inflicting' the situation or whether we see him in the people working to make things better- the fire fighters, medics, community that gathers around in times of tragedy.

Don’t get me started on people who “thank God” when people overcome illness or claim “God saved my child” when they survive a risky surgery (for example) when actually it was the incredibly knowledgeable, skilled and compassionate surgeons who just spent 12 hours in theatre who saved the child’s life, not God.

I don’t believe all goodness should be attributed to God especially when is the goodness and skills of people that perform these so called ‘miracles’.

God can’t be labelled as having no control over anything that happens or no control over the type of person someone becomes, then how can he be classed as being responsible for the Good things that happen in the world? Yet when it comes to Bad things happening, he’s got nothing to do with any of it.

If he can take credit for all the Good in the world then surely it makes senses he should bear some of the blame for all the Bad in the world too.

To be perfectly honest, the only one who truly knows the answer to your questions is God Himself but I will try and answer what I believe is my personal opinion.

I am a Muslim and believe in One God and believe in the Hereafter - life after death. If i personally don't believe in life after death, then surely what is the purpose of my life?

People struggle with things in this life because this life is a test and at the end of this test is when we will get our reward/punishment (Hereafter). Sometimes we also get the results in this life - so for example, if I have wronged someone then that is likely that it will come back at me in some way in this life or if not in this life then definitely in the hereafter.
That obviously doesn't mean that if something bad is happening to me it's because I've done something wrong but it might help for me to reflect on this and if I have then I should apologise and ask forgiveness from that particular person and God.

Your disability is not your fault but is definitely a test for you. For example, I have been trying to conceive since almost 3 years - never been pregnant. If I look at my life, I'll say I'm not a bad person - I'm kind, helpful, honest. I have good relationships with my family friends etc. I am also religious and do live my life according to my religion, then why is it that when I so desperately want children, I'm unable to have them?

This thought can make someone feel very very demotivated but what I believe and have faith is that this is a test from Allah for me. There is wisdom behind every test that only God knows best but using my own skills, I have derived that there could be plenty of reasons he's delaying children for me:

• having children is a huge responsibility and maybe now is not the best time for me to take that responsibility. Maybe I need to become more responsible myself

-maybe He wants my husband and I to build a stronger relationship before children -maybe He is giving me time so I can heal from another illness that I have before I have children -maybe He wants me to call out to Him, pray to Him, come closer to Him because anything that brings you closer to God is a blessing -maybe He wants me to really think about how I want to raise my children. If I had kids immediately I would just go with the flow and not really have time to think about what specific things I want in my child's life to raise him/her as a good righteous person.

So these are just some of the reasons that I've thought of myself but obviously Allah knows best.

Similarly, your disability is your test. Despite how difficult it is for you, you still get up and do what you can for your children, your home, your family. But maybe this disability is teaching your children something - compassion? Empathy? Love and care? That will eventually make them into a better human being. Maybe this also enables you to understand other people who have the same condition better so you're more likely to help out in terms of charity, volunteering or any form of support etc.?

For the baby that had an accident, it was a test for your friend. The baby has automatically gone up to Heaven InshaAllah. But your friend I'm sure struggled and the fact that the other driver got to walk off - that's because of man made laws that enabled him to do so. But obviously true justice is done by God so that other driver will obviously get the result of his actions.

I don't think it's that if you struggle with this you fail the test but more about despite the test, how are you keeping up the faith. I struggle every other day but I do have faith and sometimes that's what keeps a person going when they see no light at the end of the tunnel.

Sorry for the long post but I hope what I wrote makes some sense.

Far too big a question for a mumsnet thread. I have my own theories on this and very much hope for answers one day, or after I die. We are not a world of robots controlled by God, like remote controlled toys. Human free will permits true love but it also permits failings and frailty. Who knows what causes cancer? We know a lot of things are a result of man made factors: chemical and pollution etc. I don't think it's personal or a punishment. I dont even think it's a test but an experience for our souls. I don't believe God crafts our fate. I believe he can and does intervene in response to prayer but is not a magic wish granting genie!

Many books have been written on this huge subject. We will probably not understand fully the reasons this side of heaven but many are to do with us having free will. This has led to a lot of the problems we see around us. God loves us and wants us to love him, but out of choice, not being forced to by him, that is not real love. If you want to know more about the character of God, I would suggest reading one of the gospels, Matthew Mark, Luke or John, all easily available online eg Bible gateway. I hope you enjoy exploring faith and the deeper questions of life, it's always good to be curious.

If a parent allowed their child free will to the extent they were hurting others; torturing others; raping and killing and they had absolute power to stop it at any moment, we would not consider that parent good, benevolent and doing the right thing.

If God is the father, he is a monstrous abusive father. I would prefer an eternity of damnation to an eternity with a gasslighting abuser as God appears to be.

I am torn (ex Catholic) between God as an abomination and God as fiction. Either way, there is no loving God.

So if suffering is a test of how faithful people stay to God and those people are rewarded for that, what happens to those who lose their faith in him as a result of the suffering they are enduring?

I think of you believe in God and study the Bible, it becomes clear that life is not all about happiness and prosperity and good health. There is nowhere that Christians are promised that bad things won't happen and it many parts of the world Christians face death merely for believing and refusing to deny their faith. In other parts of the world, Christians are dying of hunger or being killed in violent conflicts.
In the Bible it is clear that we are in this world for a short time and that eternity will be without pain or tears. This world is imperfect because sin is in it. People drive badly and kill people, disease exists. We don't understand all disease but a lot is caused by our actions as a race. Pollution,addiction,greed, generally unhealthy lifestyles.
If you look at the alternative, it is that we are all robots, controlled by God, to do his bidding and he takes control of everything. No one has any free will anymore to chose whether they even want to follow God. He does not want us to be forced to love Him so we have free agency.

What a Christian is promised is that at those awful times, God will be close to us, holding our hands or even carrying is through.
My brother died of a brain cancer agreed 52. He never questioned why, he accepted that was God's will and actually said he was excited about getting to meet Jesus. Obviously it was harder for those of us left behind, especially his wife and boys but they also have a strong faith and found that a comfort.
I don't think any of its will ever fully understand it but it helps not to live in expectation of life being perfect and to understand that we are all simply here to make the world a better place by showing live and care for each other and when it is the time for us to move on to eternity with Christ( which is great better) then that will happen.
Sorry if that is a bit rambling.

What a Christian is promised is that at those awful times, God will be close to us, holding our hands or even carrying is through.

And for those who aren’t Christian’s or they are but are losing their faith because they are struggling with their suffering? What does God do to them? Does he still hold their hand or do they just not matter to God?

Whether you read the bible or not, believe in god or not, we all inhabit the same world and live pretty much identical experiences, so I can't understand why it is that some people conclude that it all ends in ascending to some sort of everlasting paradise provided you do actually believe in god, unless the basis for the mechanism of that ascension is simply the act of holding the belief itself.

Personally I don't believe in god, and I don't believe there's any such thing as an afterlife, but I am quite comforted in knowing that once I die I simply return to the same state as before I was conceived, i.e. non-existence. Nothingness. The universe will carry on regardless just as it did for eons before I was ever thought of, and therefore there's absolutely no reason for me to fear death or worry about what will happen to the universe once I'm gone. Evidence suggests that it will manage perfectly well, and my passing is nothing more than an inconsequential quirk. I find it ridiculously pompous, but absolutely typical of religion, to suggest that the death of a human being is any more than a total inconsequence in so far as the universe is concerned. It simply doesn't give a shit about you, me, or anyone else.

So it seems to me that faith is a pointless gamble in this particular case, because I'm going to end up with unending peace and tranquillity regardless. What happens when we die is yet another thing that is rendered irreconcilable and needlessly complicated by the introduction of the divine. So again, why is it so difficult for some people to accept reality, that they feel compelled to introduce a factor that mandates all sorts of irreconcilable posers, contradictions, and needlessly complicates what is actually a pretty simple matter? The universe just doesn't work like this, and proposing the existence of the divine is completely at odds with what we do actually understand about our universe.

I can not take seriously any proposal that can not provide a credible hypothesis, and simultaneously runs contrary to so many other perfectly viable hypothesis. It requires a suspension of common sense that I'm just not capable of.