Muslim perspective on feminism?

[BatmansBat]

Hi,

I have started a thread in feminism as I feel that religion often is blamed for suppressing women when in reality it often is men and patriarchal structures.

I believe (and I have found evidence) that Christianity was very pro women in the early days but that the church later took over and women were subjugated and partially written out.

I have also found suggestions and posted links that the prophet Mohammed actually helped women, that he was married to a business woman (Khadija) and that he helped women to gain the right to inherit.

I also have stated that the interpretation of the Koran varies between scholars and that more strict interpretations often are cultural. I am very open to being corrected.

I am being asked questions about child marriage which I cannot answer. I believe that this was a cultural thing at the time and that the age of Aisha at the time of marriage is debated by scholars. Would any Muslim posters be interested in joining the discussion? I would love to hear your perspective.

@whataboutbob

Thanks *@Milomonster* I have followed a couple of cases in Pakistan. It seems accusations of blasphemy are like witchcraft accusations of old in Europe / US and can be a convenient way of settling scores/ attacking someone you don’t like . I am in the U.K so thanks if you have the time to find the C4 documentary details.

There are many of us who feel the same way.

Join the following groups on Facebook and you'll find like minded people:

Muslims for Progressive Values

FITNA - Feminist Islamic Troublemakers of North America ( you don't have to be in North America to join this)

No lack of parity, the rule of fpur witnesses for adultery is valid for both men and women. The mehr is not a nominal amount, is as much as the bride asks.

Not sleeping with the husband does not make one non muslim. If we need to talk about this religion lets not base things on what someone said but on sources please.
Sorry to hear about the loss of pp daughter, but again cultural practices being brought up as example of religion(cant cry?? No, it is not good to allow excessive expressions of grief such as pulling out hair etc, but its human nature to cry and defo allowed)

qurananswers.me/2017/01/14/hadith-of-angels-cursing-the-wife-explained/
Some of these hadith get misused to blackmail women into sex which is ironic when their original meaning may be about advising against emotional blackmail.

I think this kind of misuse of scripture impacts most on women who are not literate and who cannot access texts and reading groups to discuss things in a more compassionate way.

Who has time to look up every single misuse and challenge it? It’s like death by a thousand cuts and life is so much lighter since being single again. There is so much of it that it’s a huge burden on daily existence. Some women I know won’t travel unaccompanied outside of a certain distance (50 miles?) as they have been told it’s not sanctioned.
Looking back, I see how much heaviness was created in my life by being married to a deeply practicing family.

Oh and the man at the dawah stall who questioned my faith as I didn’t wear hijab. I now walk past every single one. That was a low point. Forget my good character and deeds. They count for nothing.
I helped a homeless man who was Muslim who questioned the same. I asked what he needed to make his life easier. He said a rucksack. I spent an hour looking for one and purchased it for him. I told him that I really hoped God was compassionate, recognised my heart and deeds, and won’t punish me for the lack of cloth in my head. I hoped He would reward me for using my intelligence in a way that benefits society.
I am deeply scarred by my experiences as a Muslim woman (by other Muslims), and so I don’t engage with any groups and live my life quietly. I never faced a single incident of discrimination/racism in the UK but those closest to me have in the name of Islam.

I really think you are confusing a deeply cultural family for a practicing one.
The hijab is a requirement for women, same as it is for all muslims to eat halal. Not ignoring that doesn't mean people dont still recognize the good in you. Same for a muslim that pays charity whilst eating pork. The good is rewarded and the bad is adviced against.

Nope I wouldn’t say they were more culturally Islamic than practicing one (and your comment came across as patronising).

Sorry if it came across as patronising. But the examples you made until now of things your husband or in laws said and did are of cultural practices! Thats what made think that.

@MySister

I really think you are confusing a deeply cultural family for a practicing one. The hijab is a requirement for women, same as it is for all muslims to eat halal. Not ignoring that doesn't mean people dont still recognize the good in you. Same for a muslim that pays charity whilst eating pork. The good is rewarded and the bad is adviced against.

Why do women have to cover their hair and not men?

Modesty in clothes and behaviour is required for both men and women, women just have to cover more then men.Men are required to specifically lower their gaze.The main reason is that it is required from the Quran and Sunnah. Other reasons is that it promote more modest behaviour from both men and women, makes us recognizable as muslims for example.

There’s a fantastic organisation which assists women in the situations like @Milomonster describes called Muslim Women’s Network, they help women in the UK who are in dangerous situations. www.mwnuk.co.uk/ As @whataboutbob says the pressure of apostasy and blasphemy doesn’t allow feminism to thrive, even outside of feminism the different sects of the Muslim world cannot live side by side.

Here’s an interview with the founder Shaista Gohir, which shares some stories of who and how they help. www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jan/19/muslim-womens-network-chair-lot-of-women-suffering-silence

They also do lobbying work around Muslim marriage and making it fairer for women.

I feel like supporting organisations like this allows things to progress. The apostasy pressure isn’t just in community, it’s outside as well, like, oh well if you don’t want all this bad stuff then why be Muslim?

My husband is Muslim and I consider myself to be as well. However the way I see it it as that the religion was first revealed to the Arabs in the many centuries ago and it reflects the people and time it was revealed during. The Arabs were particularly cruel to woman and girls ( think stoning baby girls to death). It was revolutionary at the time as it gave women rights and value. Unfortunately it falls short of what women expect these days. Personally I feel society should move with the times and accept that society is different to how it was in 5th century Arabia.

Agreed @stairway. To keep saying the Coran banned burying girls in sand at birth just isn't enough these days. Unfortunately the conservative, misogynistic wing of Islam is uncomfortable with any talk of updating the Coran which they see as the word of God.

@BakeOffRewatch thank you so much!! This thread has brought a lot of emotions to the surface that I haven’t been able to discuss with many people. There’s so much guilt surrounding my views. This thread has made me think how I’d love to find a group of likeminded women (and men) to discuss these issues with. Thank you for sharing.

@stairway @whataboutbob couldn’t agree more. There is no mainstream platform with a loud voice to discuss these issues. I know my posts have come across as very negative but I must say I practice (or try my best) to practice the beautiful teachings of my faith and the character of our Prophet (PBUH), in particular my dealings with people. I truly believe I will be answerable for my deeds and that carries me through life.

Milomonster thanks for your perspective, were you born into the religion? I only come to it after marrying my husband so I feel a bit like an outsider and don’t really want to express my views too much. There is so much I prefer about Islam compared with Christianity. However I don’t agree with keeping women’s rights to those of the 5th century. Many Muslim countries do adapt the laws to fit the modern world, for example they use prisons instead of cutting of hands, acknowledging the fact that this is a better punishment option for a modern society with the ability to maintain law and order this way. I suspect there is little enthusiasm to modernise women’s rights because the status quo suits men.

It's not a coincidence that Muslim countries tend to have sexist laws. And homophobic. Over 50% of British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal.

@stairway yes I was born into a Muslim family, however, they were not particularly practicing when I was growing up. I’d say it was an advantage because there was none of the anxiety associated with religion that I think many face today. I married into a deeply conservative family (who were really amazing and loving) but I was an outsider in many ways. I haven’t met many people willing to have an open discussion about issues facing women. Most of the running of mosques are dominated by men and I think the majority are comfortable with the status quo.

@Milomonster, I'm sorry for the way you were treated. We are allowed to cry, even the prophet cried when his son died. There are a lot of hadith were the prophet cried. We just not allowed excessive performance grieving.

Even just last year dm went to help her dm be washed before being buried. And attend the funeral. I haven't attended any burial but I nearly did attend my stillborn son funeral and was encouraged but unfortunately paperwork to discharge myself from the hospital took long and the funeral place were about to close for the day. So I chose for him to be buried on that day instead of delaying it to the next day. It was my choice.

With aisha age, I don't belive she was a child when she got married. Yes, she is quoted in one hadith saying so. In Islam only the quran hasn't changed and that is all we were promised wouldn't change. So Muslims know that hadiths are open to fabrication. The quran is only open to misinterpretation, which a lot of people like to do to suit their agenda.

We can refuse sex, we just need to accept angels will curse at us. Unless your dh hasn't still given you your meher. Then you can refuse him and hold it over his head.

I know a man that married young and agreed to a meher of $100 000. The marriage didn't last a year. He is still paying it off when I was getting married. My uncle introduced him to me and he also showed me a woman who just got divorced but her meher was £100. He said 'You don't know the future, I would advise you to be smart and aim for the middle ground.' The man was struggling with paying his ex off five years later, the woman didn't have any money for a house deposit when she moved out of her exdh parents house. He was helping raising funds for her. My uncle works in a mosque.

Women are not being given good financial advice. And only told / be encouraged to ask for as little meeher as possible. Or at least that is my experience.

Men always have the responsibility to provide for their children. I know a lot who do not. My grandmother took my step grandfather to court when he refused to pay for their son. My grandmother won and she had to collect the money weekly. That same country stopped doing that service few years back.

We can refuse sex, we just need to accept angels will curse at us. Unless your dh hasn't still given you your meher. Then you can refuse him and hold it over his head

That kind of implies that refusing sex is a bad thing.

Is a man allowed to refuse sex from his wife ( only half joking , I’ve more often been refused than refused).

Yes, they (the men) get the same punishment.

Nobody should be punished for refusing to have sex.

The way I see it, it means don't reject your spouse for frivolous reasons. As there are exception to this.

Nobody is allowed to force themselves on another person. Having angles you don't see or hear cursing at you, is a way that gives the person who is turned on get an extra thought.