Atheism and death

[crankysaurus]

I was brought up Catholic but became atheist about 15 years ago, had drifted a bit in terms of faith but then had an experience (not abuse) that gave me clarity over my thoughts.

I've been completely happy with my belief that there is no god, but I do struggle with the finality of death and bereavement tends to hit me like a ton of bricks. I know this isn't unusual and I know people get affected differently by grief whatever their beliefs, but I'm lacking some way of dealing with it or having a resolution to it if that makes sense, given the absence of an afterlife. Some way to be at peace with death.

Not sure this really makes sense but I'd be curious to know how other atheists cope with that finality of death, beyond it just being very, very sad.

I think of death as being a return to nature and my legacy is the memories people hold of me or the impact I may have made on their lives.

I'm not really sure what you mean by 'cope' with death. As an atheist all it really means to me is that someone has returned to a state of non-existence, the same as things were before they were born. Sure, I understand the sadness brought about by no longer being able to enjoy the company of that particular individual, but I don't view death in and of itself as something inherently sad.

I no longer attend funerals as I find them pointlessly morose, mawkish, and they don't serve any worthwhile purpose for me. I couldn't care less when people wheel out 'it's what X would have wanted' in trying to guilt me into attending. The deceased no longer exists, so I'm not going to worry about potentially offending them. I've made arrangements for a no ceremony cremation myself, as (ironically, I concede) I don't want a load of folk I really didn't have much of a relationship with when I was alive getting together to pretend to be upset that I'm gone. I find the whole notion totally bizarre, so I'm determined to do what I can to ensure it doesn't happen.

To be honest, the only bereavements I've found to be upsetting were the untimely ones. A friend's suicide completely out of the blue and at a very young age troubled me for a while, but I reconcile it by looking at it from the point of view that if they genuinely felt they were better off not being here, then good luck to them. It was a very deliberate and calculated suicide, and very definitely not just a half-hearted attempt that was unfortunately successful, so there's absolutely no doubt they genuinely intended to kill themselves. The other was the slow painful death of my father. I'm content with the fact he is dead thanks to the relief of knowing that he is no longer suffering. It was exactly that when he died, a physical and mental relief.

The thought that there’s any kind of afterlife just seems so bizarre to me that I don’t find it at all odd that when humans die, it’s exactly the same as when a plant dies, or an animal - their body has just stopped working and they are no longer alive. I have the same feeling towards modern religious ideas of post-death as most people today probably have towards the ancient Egyptian ideas of an afterlife, or ancient Roman ideas - they just seem totally implausible, but to me, so do all modern religions. So I don’t feel I’m missing out on anything any more than you regret not believing in ancient Egyptian religion.

I think people “live on” in terms of the impact they made whilst alive, and in other people’s thoughts and memories of them.

I quite like this quote about how all the atoms which formed us have always existed, even before our birth, and will always exist, even after our death - they’re just less orderly.

quote here

I see death as a natural part of the cycles of nature. When I die, the physical atoms that make up my body will return to the system that is the universe. The part of me that is not corporeal will live on in the memories people will have of me, good and bad. I find that intensely comforting. Being an atheist lets me take joy in life.

Since I am entirely confident I won't know anything about it death or rather being dead doesn't worry me.

As pp have already said; Matter cannot be created or destroyed. - we are made of star dust. Circle of life the lion eats antelope but when the lion dies he becomes the grass and the antelope eat the grass. (Mustafa said it slightly more eloquently)

No one is ever really gone as long as someone remembers them. - Your loved one may be dead but they were very very real and all your memories of them are part of your life and always will be.

Its common for people who were previously 'believers' to be able to reject the irrational beliefs of theists. But due to the childhood emotional indoctrination of 'hell/afterlife' they are unable to get rid of the irrational fear of dying. It has been hard wired into them over decades.

The process of dying is bound to be a bit scary when you know you're leaving people but death is no scarier than before you were born.
The memory of people matters, the journey was the fun part, not the destination etc. People wanted to believe there was a better life awaiting them because their life was hard. Our lives are generally a magnitude better than the afterlife people imagined a thousand years ago.

@simonthedog

Since I am entirely confident I won't know anything about it death or rather being dead doesn't worry me.

This

and what Pointythings said as well: Being an atheist lets me take joy in life.'

This is the only life so make the most of it and treat others well on this earth even though there is no afterlife.

I'm really terrified of dying to be honest, I think about it a lot. It's so out of control and so final. I find it so hard to accept the impermanence of life and the fact that there is so much suffering. I was raised in a Christian home and was just thinking how much more hopeful death is if you have a religion.

Life is finite and that's scary, but the thought of existing forever is pretty horrifying.

It sounds a bit flippant but have you watched The Good Place? As well as being very funny it's a really interesting look at the idea of life after death.

I definitely fall into the nothing is created or destroyed type of thinking. I am a bit of matter and energy that has coalesced to form me for however long that lasts. I have always existed and will always exist. Every thought I have ever had has produced energy that has rippled through the universe.

Yes, I’m sad at the idea of letting go of myself and of saying goodbye to people I love, but I also understand it’s the natural order of things. We all have to be dispersed. Maybe there is some value to it, maybe there isn’t. I know that I have grown while I have been me, so I would
like to think that somehow this cycle feeds and inspires the universe as a whole.

I love the Physicist's Eulogy posted by @Wigeon

But really, death isn't the end to atheists. The matter carries on, just a little less organised. More importantly to me, the rest does too. My grandfather was the world's greatest splinter remover. He had a giant, sharp knife (it was probably normal sized) and removed them totally painlessly. I trusted him completely. I told my daughter, born decades after his death, that I learned this from him and that I could do the same. She will proffer her finger to me with the same trust I gave my grandfather.

Who knows what someone will remember about me? Someone somewhere will remember something. I won't know or care but part of me will carry on. I don't need an afterlife that I am conscious of, just one in the world, doing some good.

I don't have to worry about heaven or hell, people will remember a mixed bag.

You should watch lots of near death experiences on YouTube. They all say the same thing, there is life after death!!

There are thousands upon thousands of testimonies, by video and written.

They all say the same thing, life here is shit, the life we go to afterwards is amazing. And you don't have to be religious or that well behaved to get there either which is where religion fails us.

You think the answer to atheism is... belief?

Near death experiences are a mixture of trauma and oxygen deprivation and what our incredible minds do with that. You can induce it fairly easily with some fun plants and funguses.

You have a background of faith so if you’d feel comfortable with the language of mindfulness meditation and Plum Village (Thich Naht Hanh) Zen Buddhism you might find one of their ideas interesting.

I like their notion that our ancestors and teachers, those who have gone before, are present in us as conveyed in some Plum Village meditations. They also describe continuation in other forms, clouds, flowers etc.

It gives me a sense of continuation in a very calm, comforting way.

Another thing I’ve found meaningful to consider is the fact that, for me, characters in books eg Anne of Green Gables or the sisters in Little Women have a reality. I have an emotional connection with some stories but I don’t think they are happening in a real scientifically existing parallel universe.

This means when I allow myself to imagine people I love who have died having a continued existence I feel comfortable that I’m telling myself a meaningful story. I imagine my Dad would be pleased that my son and I have a garden now. I imagine my granny’s gentle ways and wish I could be more like her. If I want to I can imagine people being reunited and imagine myself being reunited with them. I wonder what they’d advise me about my tangle with my brother...

MrsTerryPratchett has put much the same idea far better 😊

I'm not sure this is going to help the OP at all and I'm not really qualified to answer in any way, but I wanted to join in.

I think about this subject an awful lot and I, too, am greatly affected by loved ones' deaths. I can't bring myself to believe any religious nonsense, but I have a theory that brings me some comfort.

On Earth, as we understand it, everything has a beginning and an end. However, the greater universe cannot possibly work that way, because where did everything come from? And where does the universe end? And what's after that? I don't think that humans have reached the intellectual capacity to understand anything beyond start and finish.

But... There must be something more. Another dimension? Or another state of being? It must exist, but we just can't make sense of it yet. And I like to think it will make sense when we are no longer here, and we're no longer living beings.

@tortoiselover100

You should watch lots of near death experiences on YouTube. They all say the same thing, there is life after death!!

There are thousands upon thousands of testimonies, by video and written.

They all say the same thing, life here is shit, the life we go to afterwards is amazing. And you don't have to be religious or that well behaved to get there either which is where religion fails us.

Well if its on YouTube, it must be true.

@crankysaurus

I was brought up Catholic but became atheist about 15 years ago, had drifted a bit in terms of faith but then had an experience (not abuse) that gave me clarity over my thoughts.

I've been completely happy with my belief that there is no god, but I do struggle with the finality of death and bereavement tends to hit me like a ton of bricks. I know this isn't unusual and I know people get affected differently by grief whatever their beliefs, but I'm lacking some way of dealing with it or having a resolution to it if that makes sense, given the absence of an afterlife. Some way to be at peace with death.

Not sure this really makes sense but I'd be curious to know how other atheists cope with that finality of death, beyond it just being very, very sad.

Hinduism and Buddhism, at their core, is atheism and I think the way they describe things is comforting. Basically the atoms of bodies will enter the immortality of an eternal natural cycle and the energy that powers our brains dissipates / dies into the universe every second that we live - so we are reborn every moment, we just don’t realise it. That final energy of life is a rebirth too into nature and might even burn the energy of someone else a bit brighter

There is a lot in physics that supports Buddhism - you might want a quick google. It’s the one religion physicists can’t debunk lol

I kind of think of us as an all too successful mammal on a great big planet in the vastness of universe and I'm just one tiny thing here for now but nothing really to the beauty and massive spectacular vastness of space.

From ants to sheep to people to elephants we are born, live and die because that is what animals do and are supposed to do as a part of the ecosystem on our planet.

If we're buried we go to the earth and get to become nutrients for plants etc which I find a nice idea but it's impossible to get buried these days!

Also as per others- I'll be dead so I won't know so why would it bother me (apart from the upset to those who loved me etc).

Do you find yourself trying to reconcile what was before you were born? Why not? Why is it that death holds fear for you but non-existence does not?

Is the fear of death the fear that you won't have made a difference? Or that your 'work' won't be continued? Or that your life has been insignificant?

Your life, your consciousness, is a miracle of nature- the infinitesimal chances that these atoms came together and made a walking, talking, thinking being that could grow, survive, flourish but elsewhere there would not have been enough sunlight, or oxygen, or too much sulphur, or heat or whatever. That is your impact on the universe- "look what you produced! A jumble of elements in the perfect conditions. Sure, dissemble me now...but all of me still exists, and can make something new!".

Death doesn't worry me at all. I see it as part of a cycle , which was in existence before I was born and will continue after I am gone .