Catholic baptism

[dany174]

I wondering if there is anyone how can shed some light on catholic baptisms for me.

My DH comes from a very very Catholic family, they all live in a different country (South America), we live in the UK. He has been baptised but is no longer religious and for the last 15 years has only gone to church when visiting family around Christmas. I'm not religious and come from a non religious family. Our wedding was non religious.

My DH and I are trying to conceive and the subject of baptism has come up. I know it would be very important for his grandmother that any great grandchildren are baptised. We have no problem with this.

So my question is do you think a UK catholic church would baptise a baby if the parents are not registered with the church and have no intention of attending church? I have a close friend here in the UK who is Catholic who I could ask to be godmother and we would be happy to do it at her church if they allowed it.

Also I would like to note we have nothing against religion and if our child choose to go to church themselves we would have no problem with that.

I doubt it.

It would depend on the individual priest but it's less likely in the Catholic church. Would your DH's family be satisfied with a Church of England baptism? The official position of the Roman Catholic church is that the CofE baptism is valid (ie converts from CofE to Catholicism do not need to be "rebaptised" because the existing baptism is sufficient) but given you are only doing this for his family it would be their opinion that counts. You are way more likely to be able to find a CofE priest who is willing to do a baptism for a child that will not be brought up Christian at all. Some will object but many have no problem with the idea and consider that a ministry that is open to everyone who wants it is better than having criteria for who is sufficiently Christian to be allowed it.

I think it depends on the parish and the priest. At my parish the parents attend baptism classes where you discuss faith and what baptism is etc.

I wouldn't baptise my child for other people and to keep them happy when it's not my beliefs!

Thanks for your responses. I had my suspicion it would probable be a hard one. I guess we will have to ask around when the time comes.

I'm mostly worried about DH's Grandmother. She is Opus Dei, in church at least once a day, is very involved with her local church, teaches bible classes. She likes me a lot but I know she is worried about me not being baptised and I'm afraid she will very anxious about her grand children not being baptised.

No, they wouldn’t. Mass attendance is a prerequisite for baptism. However I believe one of your relatives could informally baptise your child by themselves if they were that bothered about it.

You would most likely need to go through a Baptismal preparation programme (similar to marriage prep) and/or build up a pattern of regular attendance at Sunday Mass.

It’s quite disrespectful IMO to only take advantage of the Sacraments of a religion when you know you have no intention of raising a child in that faith. If you are serious about wanting your children baptised as Catholics then you need to understand that this rite makes them part of the Catholic Church (this is the way that the Priest and some parishioners may feel) and so it’s reasonable to expect that the children’s parents will be bringing them to church regularly rather than attending once for a beautiful service then never returning. Some individual priests might not be fussy but many are about this and also weddings, otherwise it just makes a bit of a mockery of things. It’s at Baptism that Christians believe a child is filled with the Holy Spirit and I think a priest would want parents to realise the significance/importance of that.

I'm Catholic, DP isnt, kids were christened just fine we were never even asked our religion I think it was assumed as we were there anyway.

@3babylady

I'm Catholic, DP isnt, kids were christened just fine we were never even asked our religion I think it was assumed as we were there anyway.

You're Catholic, so different scenario entirely.

@Wondermule If we were in DH's county I think it would have been easier to organising I think as the family is very well connected with the church. And I have had tea at the families priests house so he knows me a little bit. It is just very difficult for us to go there.

@Sandgrown1970 There is no disrespect intended. Sorry if my question offended. If it wasn't for my DH's family I would have not even considered it. I'm very happy for family members to take on the responsibility for the child's religious education if its important to them. But I cant pretend to believe something I don't and I wont lie to a priest (or anyone) so I'm just trying to find out what the options are. I don't want my DH's grandmother to spend years praying our child does not end up in purgatory. This might not be real to me but it's very real to her and who am I to say she is wrong. If there is anything I can do within reason to ease that burden I will at least try.

@3babylady Did you go to a church where you attended?

Wouldn't you have to lie in the responses at the baptism? There are a number of faith affirming questions, to which the parents would be expected to reply "I do".

@nocoolnamesleft I don't know, l have never been to the baptism of a baby before. I don't know if a godparent or relative could take my place if that was necessary.

This is one of the reasons I'm asking here and not make a complete fool of myself in real life if I was to go talking to a priest.

Yes but not regularly hadn't been since I was a child, DP had never been to church except as a guest at weddings and funerals.
I was baptised and had communion stopped going in my teens,
I wanted my children baptised I called the church they booked us in and it was a group of 5 baptisms, we were never asked our religious beliefs once.
Also the church went through a joining with another church in the area and is now a parish of 3 churches so the same Father Karl I knew as a child at the church had long gone so in the face of it I was entirely unknown there.

I don't know, l have never been to the baptism of a baby before. I don't know if a godparent or relative could take my place if that was necessary.
That'll be a no.

Sandgrown1970 There is no disrespect intended. Sorry if my question offended. If it wasn't for my DH's family I would have not even considered it. I'm very happy for family members to take on the responsibility for the child's religious education if its important to them. But I cant pretend to believe something I don't and I wont lie to a priest (or anyone) so I'm just trying to find out what the options are. I don't want my DH's grandmother to spend years praying our child does not end up in purgatory. This might not be real to me but it's very real to her and who am I to say she is wrong. If there is anything I can do within reason to ease that burden I will at least try.

The question didn’t offend at all, it’s more that it could be seen as disrespectful to the priest and the parishioners. If you called a priest and explained the situation, he wouldn’t be offended at all but he might be able to explain pre-requisites and you’d have to decide whether or not you’d be willing to commit (ie baptism prep, Sunday attendance for x months, one local priest asks non Catholics to attend an Alpha course etc).

As an aside, most Catholics believe the faithful go to purgatory prior to heaven -
It’s a place of purification that makes the faithful ready for heaven. For example, it’s not possible to go to purgatory then be sent to hell. A lot of Catholics believe very few people go straight to heaven and most practising Catholics (I’d imagine including your DH’s grandmother) would expect to go to purgatory for a time.

Are you thinking of Limbo when you say grandmother would be praying the great grandchildren wouldn’t go to purgatory? If so, the teaching of the Catholic Church no longer includes the concept of Limbo - this was revised quite some time ago. So maybe if this is grandmother’s fear you could reassure her with this information.

It sounds like the best bet seems a Baptism in your husband’s home country if you can get there. Baptism can take point at any point in someone’s life (older child or even adult). As a previous poster suggests, any Catholic can baptise someone but this is usually only allowed during an emergency.

Would you at least try calling a priest to ask their opinion and what would be possible? There is a priest in my hometown who won’t turn anyone away from the sacraments (much to the upset of some parishioners, mainly due to disrespectful/inappropriate behaviour or dress of some of the bridal party/parents/guests during weddings or christenings) and then two other priests in the same town who are very strict about only people who intend to practice their faith being allowed to marry in or baptise their children into the Catholic Church...even to the point of turning away a couple who were regular practising Catholics but missed a few weeks over a six month period due to holidays/illness or attending another church for a family Christening! Every priest will be different. The majority will be approachable at least.

My priest wouldn't have done it. I am Catholic and my husband is CoE. The godparents had to be confirmed Catholics - if they were just baptised he wouldn't have accepted them.
You also have to do a preparation evening and be known to the priest as a regular attendee at Mass.

@Sandgrown1970 Thank for such a thorough reply. It's been very helpful. You'r right I did mean Limbo, I got the two confused.

I might try and see if we can talk to the priest at my friends church as its also the one DH's grandmother attends when she is here. But I'll be prepared that it might not be possible or more complicated then we anticipated. Our second option would be to wait until we can travel to DH's country with a small child and let his family organise what they feel is appropriate.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to respond and given me some insight.

I did but my parents organised it at my family church. My local priest was quite rude to me at the time when I had to ring and ask him for permission (he was known for being hard line).

I did have to promise to raise dc Catholic but I didn't mind saying that as I thought I'd send them to Catholic school.

My priest would probably do it because hes nice but he's likely want you to come to church a few times. You cant (usually) just rock up for a baptism and that's it. I got away with it because my parents were active in the parish.

There's a good chance your friend can help you organise this. If a friend asked me to do this I wouldn't hesitate to speak to my priest for you. He can only say no.

Having it at the grandmother's church sounds like the best bet and probably a lovely occasion for family and her church friends. The only thing is that whilst here in the UK lots of people christen older dc in S. America it might be embarrassing for her you left it late. But I bet she will think better late than never!

Baby's not born yet. Your dh might decide to make more effort for the sake of his dc. It's lovely that you are thinking of his family like this. It's very thoughtful.

Probably not. If the parents have no faith and don't intend to even attempt to follow the faith themselves or encourage the child to do so what would be the point. Unless you tell lies

Pope Francis has said that no one should be denied baptism. Same in CofE. It's Canon law.

I shall bow to Pope France's superior knowledge of church doctrine.

Grew up Catholic in a v v Catholic non western family (number of nuns and priests in the family). First thing to note is some Catholics think Opus Dei is basically a cult.

On the other hand, the fear of purgatory (even though it's not technically a thing anymore) is real, and could be something Opus Dei members def still believes in. I see pp have mentioned that Pope Francis said anyone can be baptized but it might come down to your local priests.

She will panic if the baby is not baptized right away, as in the first few months. it's not usually a case of 'better late than never'. The thought pattern is generally 'what if something happens to the baby and they go to purgatory' - sorry to be so morbid, but having lots of this kind of chat around un-baptized babies in my family I just want to prepare you for what you might hear in future.

@siyhack58342

Grew up Catholic in a v v Catholic non western family (number of nuns and priests in the family). First thing to note is some Catholics think Opus Dei is basically a cult.

On the other hand, the fear of purgatory (even though it's not technically a thing anymore) is real, and could be something Opus Dei members def still believes in. I see pp have mentioned that Pope Francis said anyone can be baptized but it might come down to your local priests.

She will panic if the baby is not baptized right away, as in the first few months. it's not usually a case of 'better late than never'. The thought pattern is generally 'what if something happens to the baby and they go to purgatory' - sorry to be so morbid, but having lots of this kind of chat around un-baptized babies in my family I just want to prepare you for what you might hear in future.

Purgatory very much IS still part of church teaching for ALL Catholics and most faithful, practising Catholic’s would expect to spend some time there for purification prior to entering heaven. It’s a state of purification, nothing more. Everyone who goes to purgatory will eventually go to Heaven.

Limbo, an “in between” permanent state in which some Catholics previously believed was a place where unbaptised babies went to after death, was never part of official church doctrine and was officially denounced by Pope Benedict in about 2007 I think. It’s Limbo the OP has confirmed she was mixed up about. And it’s Limbo which is easily disproved with official church doctrine. It was actually based on Dante not the bible oddly! But easy enough for Op to print off the official teaching on the non existence of Limbo. Even an Opus Dei member would see Limbo as heretical.

@Sandgrown1970 thank your for the correction! I knew there was more to it than I was saying - thanks for following up. Shows how much I know about doctrine these days 😅😅

I do stand by the fact that if the grandma is very religious not baptizing the baby asap will freak her out

You do have to say you will bring them up knowing about the church, but likely they will know some if his family very religious.
I’m sure our priest would!
I think you could have a chat to gauge it but would be very surprised if they refused.

As long as you attended the baptism course I wouldn’t have thought it would be too much of an issue. I don’t think most priests are as hardline as some of the ones on here. And I’m not sure they have cannon law completely on their side.