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Original poster

Atheists, Christians, whoever... come one and all and tell me what you think of this interview

58 replies

UnquietDad · 01/10/2007 18:50

Because, even as a supporter of his, I don't think Dawkins is firing on all cylinders here. He misses about half a dozen open goals. Although to be fair, it's a tight item and the guy hardly gives him a chance to get a word in.

Is he tired? Jet-lagged? Just fed up with having to justify himself yet again to yet another sceptical interviewer with nothing to offer? Or is he just dumbing down for the interviewer (who comes across as a complete numbskull jerk)?

Disappointing, when he has been on such coruscating form elsewhere in the US: e.g. here, for example.

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harpsichordcarrier · 01/10/2007 22:45

yes, possibly. I think probably transitioning the other way (into faith) is more comforting in some ways as one is often doing so in the company of others or guided by a father/parental figure or some kind (real or virtual!) and the central message of Christianity at least is a source of great beauty, clarity and comfort.
whereas the transition in the other direction is somewhat more bleak in many ways, certainly very little comfort unless you count the comfort of the clarity of truth , which can't really compare with For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
In some ways I feel very badly about the fact that dd's will not have the great comfort and help of Christianity and the Church as they grow up, as I did, to feel part of that community and feel the love and the certainty that Jesus wants them for a sunbeam.
But what's to be done, it's a one way street isn't it. I can't teach them something that I don't believe.

TellusMater · 01/10/2007 22:46

Quite hc, quite...

harpsichordcarrier · 01/10/2007 22:48

Yes of course Tellusmater, but my children will be, as I say, at a CofE school and will also have the influence of other family members.
and of course the fact is, the prevailing culture is Christian in many ways.
but there is no alternative, I mean I can only tell them the truth of what I believe. I mean, I can't really start telling them that Genesis is true now can I?
suebaroo there are lots of different sorts of creationists. are the allegorical sort

SueBarooeeooeeooooo · 01/10/2007 22:51

Harpsi, you have to tell kids the truth as you understand it, I think.

Hunker, oh, do we have to? The Dinosaurs are great big animals, none of which are alive anymore. Well, unless you count that one in that Ben Stiller film.

hunkermunker · 01/10/2007 22:52

Nah, we don't have to. I'm fascinated, but I like you too much to poke you too much about it

And I would poke hard

harpsichordcarrier · 01/10/2007 22:53

yes, of course that's true.
we all want to give our children the good bits from our childhoods though.
it does upset me a little that dds' childhoods will be nothing like mine. better in some ways, but worse in many others.

SueBarooeeooeeooooo · 01/10/2007 22:53

harpsi, I'm the sort that doesn't go around promoting it as a belief that should be taught in schools, and sees that as a passage of scripture, the creation account is as multi-layered in meaning as any other passage in the bible.

But I'm a simple sort, and if I believe in an Almighty God, it's not really too difficult to believe that He created all things. In that context, I'm rather surprised He took so long.

TellusMater · 01/10/2007 22:53

Mine too will have the influence of other family members. And a non-faith school...

And friends who are from atheist/agnostic/Muslim/Hindu/Jewish families. But like you, I can only tell them that my belief is my belief.

They may indeed encounter people who tell them Genesis is true - and I will, again, have to tell them my beliefs on that matter...

harpsichordcarrier · 01/10/2007 22:54

anyway a day could mean anything couldn't it
I mean, God is God after all.
he could get a lot done in a day

harpsichordcarrier · 01/10/2007 22:54

oh look at us all, getting along and everything

SueBarooeeooeeooooo · 01/10/2007 22:55

Hunker, I poked on a regular basis, by many. (Have I just lowered the tone?)

Seriously, I've been online for a looong time, if I had a wafer-thin skin, I'd stick to threads about LazyTown...

TellusMater · 01/10/2007 22:57

I'm not having a pop really SueBaroo, sorry.

Wide disparity between Christian beliefs as well. My children are not likely to be brought up in the same way, and with the same beliefs, as SueBaroo's for example.

SueBarooeeooeeooooo · 01/10/2007 23:00

TM, oh, I didn't think you were having a go.

harpsichordcarrier · 01/10/2007 23:01

no, of course.

Original poster
UnquietDad · 02/10/2007 09:36

I imagine a lot of Americans are (scarily) like O'Reilly and don't realy know what Atheists are - they probably think they are Satanists.

I still can't get over the way he presented the item as if it were about some weird cult which right-thinking people should fear sweeping the nation. Contrast with Dawkins' R2 interview with Jeremy Vine - also a Christian - in which there was debate and respect on both sides.

As to what we tell the children, it's an interesting one. My DS is too young to even know what any of it means. My DD is 7, and says she believes in God, but only because she has sung hymns and had assemblies and so on - I bet they've never had a Humanist or atheist in school. She also believes in Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy, so I'm not reading too much into it. As she gets older I will hope to teach her to back up her views with evidence - not "what to think" bit "how to think".

It's like the Loch Ness Monster for me. I'm about 95-5 on that. You can point to visual evidence, but it is scrappy, blurred and inconclusive, and against that you have to set the 600-probe sweep of the Loch done by the BBC a few years ago. With all of that in mind, you have to conclude that Nessie is either very good at hiding or non-existent. The balance of evidence is in favour of non-existent - doesn't mean I am 100% right, just that I've gone for the option where the balance of the evidence lies.

It's time for my favourite diagram again!

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SueBarooeeooeeooooo · 02/10/2007 09:39

Of course the loch ness monster is real. It had it's own cartoon series in the eighties.

The thing about America is that it is much more base-level Christian than we are. We have centuries of tradition etc. but they still have an enormous church-going culture.

Original poster
UnquietDad · 02/10/2007 09:58

That's true, and it's a country where, not so long ago, a President (G.Bush Senior) could say that he didn't consider atheists to be proper citizens. Even at the tender age of 19 I was a bit at that.

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harpsichordcarrier · 02/10/2007 11:13

UQD I like that diagram
when dd1 starts school (cofe but on the record as being open to all faiths and discussion of same) I was wondering if I could suggest going into school and talking about atheism/humanism? I think it would probably go down like a lead balloon but I I am thinking hard about what I could suggest.

harrisey · 02/10/2007 11:26

hcc - you should do that. Although I disagree with your (non) beleif system, I think children should hear about dfferent ways of living,especially in a church school.

Go for it!

Original poster
UnquietDad · 02/10/2007 11:27

harpsichord - you're brave!
Ous is allegedly a non-faith school but I think I'd be met with a stony silence if I suggested that.

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harrisey · 02/10/2007 11:27

btw UQD, your diagram does not in any way reflect the intellectual basis for my faith. Its not unquestioning, not ignoring evidence, not blind at all, in fact it is backed up by the daily evidence of my own life and exceedingly well thought through.

Wish I could do my own diagram to show it !

Original poster
UnquietDad · 02/10/2007 11:29

That's the thing, though, it's your personal "evidence" which is not the same thing as the way a scientist would use the word. He'd call that "anecdotal" evidence.

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Original poster
UnquietDad · 02/10/2007 11:30

That's the thing, though, it's your personal "evidence" which is not the same thing as the way a scientist would use the word. He'd call that "anecdotal" evidence.

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SueBarooeeooeeooooo · 02/10/2007 11:34

Well, actually, there's a lot about the Christian faith that isn't just anecdotal experience based stuff.

Ah, what the heck, it's not like sweeping statements don't get made on here everyday.

Some Christians base their faith on things which have a decent historical basis.

Original poster
UnquietDad · 02/10/2007 11:40

Oh, I'm sure you can find plenty in the Bible which may be true; I've had conversations with Christians about this before. The problem for me is unpicking all the bits which are allegory, the bits which are myth, the bits which are exaggeration, the bits which are not intended to be taken literally, etc, etc. It's a very intersting book but ultimately I'm not going to be convinced by reading it, any more than I would be convinced of the truth of "lord of the Rings" by reading it!

I thought harrisey was talking about her own personal "experience" of faith which is very difficult to quantify. You see, if someone talks about their personal experience of Zeus, does that make him real? That's my problem.

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