Thinking of taking a step in the direction of the church...

[biblecurious]

Hi all,

OK, I have recently become increasingly curious about the bible and regular worship despite the fact that I would (previously) describe myself as entirely skeptical and even slightly uncomfortable with religion, particularly in trying to understand how it offers meaning to me as a woman in a very male world. But anyway, I have starting going to a parent/toddler group at a lovely Baptist and somehow it doesn't seem so strange and scary anymore and I'd like to know more.

However, I am slightly put off by my own ignorance - I mean, what are all these different 'versions' of church; baptist, methodist etc and how do you begin to decide which is for you when you have little experience of church-going?

Sorry, I know this is phrased clumsily but I hope someone out there understands my gist and I welcome all thoughts!

(I am a fairly regular poster on MN but have changed my name for this thread.)
Thanks in advance.

Explosive - that was very interesting, thank you. However, I have a lot to learn. The Church of England is catholic? I realise this isn't necessarily the important bit, but I do like to devour knowledge!

Mary, I have emailed you and thanks. We are actually going to our first service tomorrow - looking forward to it.

Hi someone told me about this and it really affected me biblecurious.....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKmdIdQg3Ks its a video called the fathers love letter its a few mins long x

Thanks all. TINSEL, I'm trying to watch the clip, but it's still twirling about as though loading.

If anyone is around, can they tell me (possibly AGAIN) (1) what it means to be a 'born-again' Christian and (2) how your faith actively plays a part in your life.

For example, Halloween being a no-no (what do you do with those 3-foot-high callers?) - but more importantly the day-to-day stuff.

Have you had a look at the Belief-O-Matic quiz on belief.net? Will try to post link www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html

Hope no-one finds this offensive, I actually found it useful & entertaining...

Thanks, that was interesting albeit tongue-in-cheek! Do I dare list the first few results that I received??

I am of course aware that this is dependent on my particular stage of spirituality - as well as just being fun too!

When Jesus left the glory of heaven and came to earth He did so to restore the relationship between God and us which was lost because of human sin. God, being perfect cannot accept sin in heaven, the only way we could be reconciled to God was through someone who never sinned but voluntarily took our sin upon himself.
There is no other way for us to be reconciled to God except through Jesus Christ. If we want to live the life of the Kingdom of God we must be 'born again'. To make a distinction between Christians who are 'born again' and those who are not is, as far as I can see nonsense.
We accept that we need to live a life of sacrifice, to use Bible language to 'take on the cross and follow Christ'. We can only do that by the grace of God. Let nobody tell you that the Christian life is a doddle, it is not, but in the end there is no other life that is worth living.
It probably does not make as much difference to my daily life as it should do:- even if we are perfect in God's eyes because He looks at us as if we were perfect in Christ, we have to live in a world full of sin and are tainted by it.
In the end you have to make up your mind whether you want the life of this world or the life of Christ, nobody can do that for you. All I can say is that I couldn't live any other life, however imperfectly.

hi dunno what happened there with the yoiu tube clip couold you try looking up

the fathers love letter

im maybe rubbish at links as fairly new

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKmdIdQg3Ks could you try this? hope it works x

you need to press play it sort of breaks up a bit at the start when I play it but not from then after its def worth watching

(1) what it means to be a 'born-again' Christian

The phrase is often used to mean those who have come to faith (or returned to faith) as an adult, rather than those brought up as Christians. It comes from the gospel of John, chapter 3. Some bible translations miss out the "again" though!

There are good and bad Christians, whether or not they have been born again or brought up as Christian. Ultimately it shouldn't matter.

(2) how your faith actively plays a part in your life.

I try to live my life according to how Jesus tells us to, particularly his "two commandments" - loving God and your neighbour. I try not to judge people. I try to be there for people if they need help. I pray. Notice how much of it is "try"

Halloween being a no-no (what do you do with those 3-foot-high callers?) - but more importantly the day-to-day stuff.

We don't do Halloween because it scares DS and because I hate all the "tricking". But I give out treats to those that come, even those old enough to know better. For the majority it is harmless fun.

Day-to-day, I try to encourage our children to be aware of people, to be kind and considerate, and to respect the beliefs of others. I do teach them about Christianity, and think its really important they see how they can apply it to how they live their lives. For example, we say grace at mealtimes. They learn to say thank you for what they have and appreciate that not everyone has enough to eat. I don't come down too heavily on them, they are just children after all!

We go to church every Sunday, and they become involved in the activities at church.

Now, I'm not perfect, it doesn't always work, I still lose my rag at them (big-style this morning ). But I do try and I keep trying.

Very long post - sorry, skip it if it is too much!

Thought I'd add my two bits worth while waiting for the next cry from upstairs (DS2 has (another!) ear infection...).

But firstly, did you make it to church, BC? And if so, how did you find it? I had a friend come to church for the first time today, and I think she felt comfortable, although it was a Remembrance Day service and therefore a little different.

As to 'born again', as MaryBS says, it comes from John chapter 3, where Jesus uses it to explain to a questioner that you can't be part of God' kingdom unless you are born again. If you read the whole chapter, Jesus seems to be saying that we are alienated from God because of our rejection of him (either consciously and deliberately or simply by treating him with indifference), and therefore we only deserve to be rejected by him in our turn. But the unique and amazing thing about Christianity is that God has reached out to us by sending Jesus to bear the consequences of that rejection - simply because he loves us (John 3:16-17, if you have a Bible handy!). Depending on Jesus' death on the cross as the basis of our new relationship with God is such a radical thing, given that we were totally alienated from him, that the best way Jesus can describe it is to say that it is being born again - moving from one sort of existence into another.

All of which is a rather long-winded way of saying that as far as I can see, all Christians (although obviously not those people who are into it merely as a cultural - I'm British, therefore I must be a Christian - kind of thing) are born again - that is, they've moved into a totally new kind of existence, in which they have a relationship with God. We tend to associate the phrase with American fundamentalism or happy-clappyness - or at least I do, which is why I don't use it very much in case I'm misunderstood! Please come back to me on this if I'm confusing the issue or you think I'm talking rubbish.

As to how my faith plays an active role in my life, that's a bit like asking how DH plays an active role in my life. I'm in a relationship with him, therefore I want to spend time with him, we have mutual friends, we're getting to know each other better and better as time goes on, etc. Just like in a marriage both people like making each other happy, there is a sense in which having a relationship with God means finding out what pleases him and doing it.

Practically, I guess that looks like reading the Bible, alone and with friends, to find out more about God and get to know him better, going to church to do the same thing. And since I've found out more about what God is like, that's thrown more light on my behaviour, so I've had to change some stuff in my life. To give you an example I was reading the letter of James with DS1 tonight and it was all about losing your temper, and now I feel really bad about basically spending the last two days screaming at the kids, so I had to apologise to DS and God!

Does that make any kind of sense at all? Last night was such a grim night, what with ear infections and all, that I'm sure I'm just babbling now. Time for bed!

Thanks all for posting, it really helps. TINSEL - I got to see that clip (it just required patience on my part!) and found it interesting although any American voice-over reduced it somewhat to a Hollywood movie and I wondered if anyone else had seen it and could comment on whether mashing together bits of the bible in this way was taking liberties with the original context. Sorry, that sounds harsh - I did enjoy watching it and I'm just curious about anyone else's perspective. Thanks.

OK, MaryBS, helpful as ever, thank you. procrastinatingparent - also very interesting and helpful. Your post made perfect sense - para 5 - re 'happy clappy' etc, yes that is exactly what I thought, but I have come to realise my own ignorance.

I have made it to church finally - this month. It was neither intimidating or 'weird' and all of us enjoyed it and have returned. It's a big congregation with a lot of families and very welcoming. To put it very crudely: the 'God' bit of my very early exploration into this is the part I am most comfortable with and which seems to 'fit' with my own experiences and spirituality. It's the belief in Jesus as son of God that I am getting to grips with - the message is good, but the concept is tricky. Perhaps that is where faith comes in and I have some way to go before it all falls into place... I don't know. I'm sorry if any of this sounds disrespectful, not my intention. It's very hard to perceive and describe a personal spiritual journey in anything but self-centred terms!

I'm enjoying it all very much and getting a lot of support - when requested I might add - to help me find my way, whatever that may turn out to be.

biblecurious, very glad all is going well for you Am finding some of the explanatory posts from Mary, Explosive and procrastinating extremely useful myself.
When I came back to the C of E after a number of university-triggered years of inertia, it was to an uber liberal catholic parish that made colossal assumptions about scripture and liturgy knowledge (preferably in the original Greek ). I busked my way through merrily by singing in the choir and rustling papers in the PCC but my lack of knowledge of The Basics since being confirmed in 1973 has always been preying on my mind. So thank you for asking questions and getting such helpful answers

BC - glad to help, and you know where I am if you want to ask anything else.! . Glad to hear you are enjoying church, that DOES make life easier!

Is it the concept of Jesus as both "son of God" and God you struggle with? Or something else?

(and no, I haven't looked at that link yet, keep meaning to...)

BC/Marina/anyone else I can recommend this book:

Faith Confirmed

which is what we use for confirmation classes. It IS from an Anglican viewpoint though, with emphasis on Sacraments, but I have found it very readable and thought-provoking. Doesn't cost a fortune either at £6.99!

Hello all.

Re-read this thread and got a lot out of revisiting all your comments. A few things:

DutchOma - you kindly mentioned a text by Selwyn Hughes - can I get hold of that somehow? He has obviously written a lot so I'm not sure which publication I am after.
I love this post of yours: "They will love having you. God loves having you. Honestly, He will be delighted that you are looking Him up."

TheDuchess - did you get any further in your own exploration of the church?

Brownsuga - about a million years ago (ok, 6 weeks) you recommended a book to me and kindly gave your email address which I realise I never followed up. Would you mind if I did so? Or perhaps you could give me the book title. Thank you.

ProfPlum - I think I'm going to go ahead and order the book you recommended, "Uncommon Sense: Introduction to Christian Belief".

MaryBS - thanks for your continuing help. I'm looking at your book recommendation now xx

Marina - I'm so glad you are getting something from this thread - it makes me feel less selfish for taking up all people's time with my ponderings!
I am very happy following the path that I am on, it just seems right. Two years ago (maybe less) these would not be words I thought I would say. An aside: I have started to pray again - how could I forget that I used to do this so regularly? (20 yrs ago now mind you) A close family member has been battling with cancer for over 5 yrs and this morning received a letter with very good news about a recent test. When I woke up this morning I prayed for 2 people, he was one of them.

Ah, Mary, in answer to your question: I'm just not really certain in my own mind who Jesus was/is/supposed to represent. I can't believe I dare post something so ignorant, but it eludes me so I suppose it is relevant.

Bible reading - I'm going to start with the gospels unless anyone else has recommendations.

No, its good that you're honest. I would start with Mark's gospel and see where that leads you.

Will do,thanks.

Actually, BC, who Jesus is is absolutely the heart of the whole God question, so if you're looking for answers to the big questions I think you're digging in the right place! Not ignorant at all! Let us know how you get on with Mark (my small study group tackled Mark a year or so ago, and beginners and oldies alike all got loads out of it).

I love DutchOma's comment too; and I think it fits in really well with my view of prayer. Don't you love it when your kids have something they are really struggling with, and they can't get anywhere with turning it over in their minds, and they come to you for help (usually in the middle of cooking dinner, mind you!)? That they trust me with their problems and thoughts and musings and hopes is very precious to me. How much more must God feel that for us! So praying, for others and for clarity for yourself, is a fantastic way to start a relationship with God, and I am convinced that he hears and answers us, although it may not always be the answer we are expecting.

Rereading this thread again has been encouraging for me as well. Our lives are so busy that it is rare to have the chance to ponder the big issues of life, and I really admire you for being adventurous enough not to let other stuff get in the way of you having a go at them. All the best!

Hi everyone, just thread crashing to say............harrisey, i think i know your church.... is your minister retiring next week?

Yes! He preached his last sermon on Sunday (tearjerker!). Its the retirment service on Sunday.

How did you know?

D'you mean how did i know what church it was? - you mentioned the name of your toddlers group & i used to go there too

I know E and M & their family and friends of mine are are doing the youth programme on Sunday. hope it goes well

sorry to be so cryptic, i just didn't want to mention the name of the church in case i blew your cover on Mumsnet

sorry for threadcrashing, bible curious, t'was extremely interesting thread and i didnt mean to kill it

i've been going through a very similar situation, Biblecurious. although in my case it was a toddler group at a rather evangelical church. after attending the services a few times, i've decided i definitely want to pursue christianity and find out much more about the faith, but that this particular church doesn't entirely suit my pernickety tastes! i know it's probably the wrong way round to view things, as another poster has pointed out, but i just feel that i personally would gain more, at a more traditional setting, and so have more to offer iyswim.

Thanks PP - I agree, I am finding prayer a really useful outlet - almost a relief to offload somewhere. Didn't think I'd feel like that.

Kristina - you are most welcome! It keeps the thread bumped, post whenever (and whatever!) you like as far as I'm concerned.

I am currently reading a very upbeat, light-hearted introduction to the bible itself as well as "Uncommon Sense: Introduction to Christian Belief" by Homer Rogers which was a recommendation somewhere on MN - thanks to whoever that was, so far it's really interesting.

Of course at some point I'll be reading the bible itself - I just want to fly through the introductory book first because it's giving me a bit of context. Honest!

Squeaky - will you be exploring other churches? I hope you find one you are happy with as I seem to. x

HI

I am doing an Alpha Course at the moment and, for me, I feel it is the most important thing I have done in my life (with the exception of the birth of my DS). I am a shy person and the course has given me courage to speak to people I do not know, to share food with them and discuss things and laugh with them.

I recently attended a day course at the local Vicarage to discuss the Holy Spirit and people there were praying for me. It was just so amazing. It really was.

ALpha is fantastic and I would recommend it to everyone who want to know more. The friends I have made through this course, I hope, will stay with me for a long time.