Women in Christianity

[ZenNudist]

So today we had the Martha/Mary reading at church about Mary being the better sister for sitting around listening rapt to Jesus whilst Martha bustles around looking after everyone but gets a bit annoyed having to do it all. There was a sermon after about parents bustling round with busy lives but we should all make sure Jesus is at the centre of everything. All very well and good but you still have to get food on the table and clean up after.

It got me thinking of how alienating the bible and the Catholic church are to women.

Also how few the biblical reference points to women, that we can find ourselves asking if we are a Martha or a Mary. What if Im a Moses? (Im not, but just saying). I will wager no man ever felt the need to compare themselves to the female biblical characters. I know we use these bible stories as paradigms of human behaviour and we are stuck with religious teaching from a time when women were ignored or servile to men, but in 2000 odd years something could have been done to redress the balance.

And don't get me started on all male clergy!

Sooooo, any suggestions for reading about women and Christianity? Or just share how you reconcile a faithful life and praise for God from within the certain knowledge that the church is the ultimate patriarchy?

That sounds a bit harsh. I'm happy being Catholic despite all the millstones that come from being a centuries old organisation thats terrible at modernisation. At the end of the day its love of God that matters.

Karen Armstrong and her early works.
Have a bunch of articles at school for kids to read as part of A-level. Might be in tomorrow if you want me to ping a couple to you?

Just came back to this thread and found all the fascinating comments. I especially like Floral's comments about feminist Catholicism and also on transubstantiation. Thank you.

I want to be a good Catholic but inevitably end up "pick and mix" because I cant agree on the thorny issues about sex in particular. So my original post about Martha/Mary was a very specific example that represents the tip of the iceberg.

Im largely happy with my choices and in some ways just need a pep talk from like minded chistians so that I dont get discouraged. But I do wish that we had younger priests both male and female being welcomed into the church and able to marry etc. I also wish the RC view on marriage made more sense. And sexual sin. And homosexuality. 🤯

We all pick and mix. Everyone. Religious, Non-Religious, each permutation within a religion. That's sort of the point of a conscience - we each have this internal compass. With a few people it's right out of whack, but most people find it steers them pretty well. You and I, we believe that the true north of our compass is God, so we pay attention to certain things as we navigate, that others don't feel necessary.

In the end, we only ever know what's what for definite once we reach our destination. Beyond that, we just share provisions and try not to throw anyone overboard!

Coming back to the thread, it's just made me realise how empowering the Mary and Martha story is. To me anyway. At a time when it was seen as doubtful whether women even had souls, and were definitely viewed as only being of use when they were being Martha's, to hear Christ recognise the worth of women by saying what he did, makes him stand out of the context of his time.

Thanks Gone2far, thats a fresh viewpoint on it. I think I was having a bad day when I started this thread but Ive appreciated the views it has generated.

I also read Floral's answer to my pick and mix concerns this morning, which I found comforting.

In any case I had a timely reminder tonight at mass that answered something I last typed here. It was Colossians 3:1-5,9-11 reminding me to focus on heavenly things and reject my "earthly nature". It is very hard line but also very inclusive saying "Christ is with all, and in all". Feels like something to pray on.

I love that, Gone2far.

Op you might like this video, it's by Lucy Peppiatt who is a feminist theologians, talking about a reading of 1 Corinthians 11 and Paul in general. Really interesting.
www.clarion-journal.com/clarion_journal_of_spirit/2016/01/lucy-peppiatt-women-and-worship-at-corinth.html

I was brought up Roman Catholic and stopped going to church when I went to uni. As an parent I wanted my kids to have church as part of their lives, but struggled with the RC church, but found our local Church of England amazing, women lead so much of it, I want my boys to grow up thinking women are capable of anything and this church does that. Our vicar is a mum of 4 and absolutely down to earth and great.

I often feel sad my kids with by CoE and not catholic but the women in church was a big reason !

Madhairday I watched lucy peppiat. I will read more of her writing. Shes very engaging.

Glad you like her Zen, I find her very helpful too. She's speaking at New Wine this week as the main morning speaker, on 1 Corinthians, I've been watching online as was there last week. Love everything she's saying, she paints such an emancipatory picture of how women were viewed in the early church and by Jesus and Paul, her scholarship is impressive but she's down to earth too. She's just released a new book about women and the church.

This is a wonderful thread.

My own beliefs and experiences are very similar to Floral. I especially love the sacramental nature of Catholic theology so that God is everywhere in a tangible, literal way. I also believe in transubstantiation, I can't articulate that well, I'm not sure that anyone can, but Jesus gives his very substance and himself completely to us. The idea that God could be present in a small piece of bread and in wine isn't difficult for me. I remember meditating in the presence of God at Exposition and realized that the entire unique human person will develop from a fertilized egg that is barely visible to the human eye. All our fabulous and horrendous complexity develops out of the tiniest thing. In comparison a piece of bread is massive.

It's the humility of God, coming to us as a vulnerable baby, completely dependent on us. Jesus told us very clearly in John 6 that he was going to come to us in this form and we were going to consume him. It says many of his disciples were unable to accept this teaching and stopped following him. He didn't run after them and tell them it was a misunderstanding. For this reason closed communion makes sense. For us it's not a symbol, it's sacred, it's Jesus.

There has been lots of terrible actions by people in the church through its history. To me it's more a miracle that it's still here after 2,000 years despite the weight of human sin. That's down to the presence of Jesus.

I am also a former atheist who chose Catholicism 30 years ago. I was speaking to a priest who was a convert too and who was a leader in his previous church (can't remember what that was). He said he was very struck how Catholics will find where Mass is and it doesn't matter how humble the environment they will come. He said how Mass was held at a school gym and was packed and yet there was a very beautiful, purpose built church of another branch of Christianity nearby but that Catholics want Jesus in the Eucharist. That is how I feel. I don't understand it, I just know God is present and he unites everyone present when we receive him in communion in a tangible way. It's the mysticism, the beauty, truth and mystery of God. And everyone, no matter who you are is equal in that encounter.