Does self forgiveness figure in Christianity?

[Ingesw]

...I was brought up in a Christian family and tbh/ sadly it didn't go well for me. Things that I am now discovering are the act of self love, a healthy selfishness (fill up your own up so that you have enough left to actually give to others) and forgiveness of self. These things never figured when I was growing up, I mentioned self forgiveness in a family discussion and it was treated as though it was an excuse for bad behaviour. I don't mind, and I will ignore what I think is an unhealthy attitude...but, I am curious to know what the wider thinking is here. Being told I had Gods forgiveness was ok, but until I had forgiven myself I didn't find it so helpful.

Nighttimenope

No news there then.

I don't do human sacrifice. Maybe that makes me odd.

Speakout seems to be taking the Old Testament literally. Only fundamentalists do that.
Most of the “smiting” mentioned is the Israelites’ view on natural events that they attributed to the actions of God, eg battle victories over hostile tribes, floods, the plagues of Egypt, etc.
God is love incarnate. He offered up Himself (in the form of Jesus) to torture and death on the cross, out of that love, rather than raise a hand against His torturers.
None of us are perfect. If we think we are, then we have the sin of false pride! We all need God’s love and forgiveness, and we should be able to accept them freely, in the spirit that they are given.

Babdoc

So how do we treat the old testament?
Ignore? Interpret as allegory? Cherry pick?

How convenient to be able to leave out the bad bits.

God is love incarnate?

I thought he is jealous and wrathful?

If he is so loving why does he demand the acceptance of a human sacrifice?

Your god sounds a nasty piece of work.

My understanding of the atonement is much more in the mode of healing and reconciliation, rather than smiting and wrath.

It’s been busy in RL so I’ve been away from the thread.

It’s interesting, ‘sin’ wasn’t what was on my mind when I wrote this thread, on my mind were bad decisions, mistakes made and probably tempers lost. Perhaps I have lost my Christian way by not calling them a sin as such, now I choose not to beat myself with a stick and just think of these things as human nature or a good person placed in a pretty intolerable situation. I tend to look at why things have happened, and perhaps move some of the causes if I can, If something can’t be removed then I learn new coping strategies (yoga, self care, learn new behaviours).

I think it’s so interesting how sin has been mentioned such a lot in the posts. They are helpful to read and I can see why my parents find the way I talk about forgiving my self difficult.

Yes, I think it's helpful to understand 'sin' in it's context of 'missing the mark'. Sometimes it's due to deliberate, wicked choice, I do believe that exists. But often times it is simple mistakes, or selfishness, or carelessness for any number of reasons that just doesn't quite hit the spot of being right. We all want to avoid it, but it's just reality of life.

it depends on the definition of sin
most people see sin as the big stuff murder theft adultery and most people whether believers or not do not kill cheat or steal
however sin in religious terms is not just the big stuff but the small stuff the day to day little mistakes, the tetchiness, a bit of gossip, snapping at kids just because we are tired when they did not do anything wrong, being a bit mean, breaking a promise, sometimes it is just not doing something not giving a drink of water to the thirsty, not trying our hardest skiving at work or school, this is partly human nature but we often unintentionally hurt people by the above and sometimes intentionally hurt people with things that would have been better left unsaid and so asking God and others for forgiveness is right, we all do it most people do say sorry " Sorry I snapped at you" or whatever and most people accept that apology and it is not good if people expect multiple apologies for the same small sin neither should we beat ourselves up over and over again about the same small sin God has forgiven, mostly the person sinned against has forgiven so that is the end of it no need for endless guilt over minor sins but it also doesn't mean they weren't minor sins or they didn't need apologising for.
How many threads here would have been avoided if someone had apologised quickly and said apology being accepted most things labelled as CF on mumsnet are minor sins when the perpetrator either thinks they have done nothing wrong or else knows they have but doesn't care and it breeds resentment and anger. without being too TAAT the lodger that has taken over the house for 2 days so homeowner has to hide in her room, the lorry driver parked in front of a drive blocking someone in, the person who thinks her kids should be allowed paints in her MIL newly carpeted lounge all thoughtlessness causing other people momentary discomfort annoyance and extra work but with no thought or care for how their actions impact others. None of these require abasement in dust, the lorry driver needs to say sorry and move vehicle, the parent needs to monitor her kids, the lodger needs to apologise for the inconvenience and take her guests to her room and promise not to do it again.
any one who is adamant they are never mean, never unkind, never gossips, has never done anything less than 100% of their best is probably deluded

@babdoc and @speakout, I believe the OT is to be interpreted according to genre. So the poetry is..poetry, the ‘historical’ parts historical. I think that would put me in the category of fundamentalist to you @babdoc. It’s not a rare understanding/interpretation of the OT Scriptures though.
@speakout, you mention not being into human sacrifice. Neither is the God of the Bible and He regularly speaks out and acts out against it. In fact interestingly, Judaism was one of the few ancient religions that didn’t do human sacrifice. Christians aren’t into it either. If by human sacrifice you are referring to the death of Christ, the God-Man, it’s not really a human sacrifice. Because He was fully man and fully God and it was his autonomy. You wouldn’t say that a mother who pushes her child from the path of an oncoming car at the cost of her own life was into ‘human sacrifice.’ The point of Christianity is that the just punishment for sin is unavoidable - it’s either paid by the finite suffering of the infinite, or the infinite suffering of the finite. Again, I know I don’t speak for all Christians on any of this but I wanted to respond to you on this because it’s really quite unfair to suggest that any of us are fans of human sacrifice.
Sorry OP, I appreciate you got what you were looking for from the thread and I don’t mean to derail it. Just wanted to answer to some points that had been raised.

Ingesw regarding my launch into discussing sin, it was a poster who believed that didn't need to forgive themselves. I felt the necessity to explain why Christians have such a strong emphasis on forgiveness. Why? Because of sin. Sin is extremely unfashionable nowadays outside religious circles and often apparently understood as something that is accusatory rather than an objective reality.

Jesus, before he was even born was coming to save us from sin, so no sin no need for Christ, no need for mercy.

Then different Christian theologies have different ideas of sin. In Catholic theology pleasure is not a sin, nor is drinking alcohol (in moderation), dancing and celebrating. Calvinism however did apparently frown on some activities and call them sinful, including a healthy self-love. Although this is considered heretical by Catholics some of this Calvinist thought did influence some Catholics and was called Jansenism and heavily criticized as taking the joy out of life and not emphasizing God's love and mercy for everyone.

It was the kind of theology that had Puritans when in power in England banning Christmas, Saint's Days celebrations and closing theatres.

So I guess my point is we shouldn't be asking for forgiveness for things that are not sins. Going back to my very first point which is what is your underlying theology?

IdaBWells, I'm not sure of the exact theology of the Christian faith that I was raised in. However, I do have relatives who I think are puritan and don't celebrate Christmas or birthdays. Also ringing true is enjoyment and pleasure for it's own sake being frowned upon or worldly pursuits being enjoyed too much. By the sound of it you may know more than I about the theology that is behind those sorts of views. I find it all quite sad though really, heaven may or not be wonderful but IMO the journey there may as well be pleasurable. I used to find (and I still do) that being too happy or enthusiastic about something was considered OTT or slightly unnecessary. I don't give a shit nowadays and crack on with my joy, but it makes them uncomfortable!

I think also I became tired of normal human failings, the sort of stuff we fluff up daily or whenever, being rolled up as sin and causing us to be unworthy.

Yes exactly, this is what I referring to. The kingdom of God is supposed to start here on earth, when in relationship with Christ and forgiven we should experience joy, peace, love, hope and be able to celebrate the wonder of life.

I mention theology because those basic beliefs about who God is and how he relates to us and we relate to him is reflected in all the ways a community lives. As a child brought up within a belief system you may be unaware of it's roots.

Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine,
There's always laughter and good red wine.
At least I"ve always found it so,
Benedicamus Domino!

Hilaire Belloc