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Philosophy/religion

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Our body hosts more bacteria than the human cells it contains

46 replies

silverysky · 02/06/2018 07:54

Here:

discovermagazine.com/galleries/zen-photo/m/microbiome

I find this mind blowing. I thought I'd post this here to see if anyone has any philosophical or religious takes on this. To me it seems to really underline how blurred the boundaries are between self and the rest of the universe when everything works in harmony.

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silverysky · 02/06/2018 23:52

Why the hmm emoji, flumpy? Are scientific observations not allowed to inspire the imagination or prompt an emotional response? Yes, mitochondria are fascinating too.

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Walkingdeadfangirl · 03/06/2018 00:34

When you express that you are mind blown I think it is pretty fair to use the words surprised and amazed.
Of course it is ok to be 'mind blown', I am just asking why now for you about having lots of bacteria? It is mind blowing to learn there is 7 billion people on just the one planet earth? It is mind blowing to learn how many grains of sand there is on the beach, how many stars their are in the sky and how big grahams number is. Just feels like you are trying to make a bigger/different point.

Yet we, generally, consider ourselves singular human beings
I dont really know what that means.

flumpybear · 03/06/2018 05:08

Wrong emoji - I'm a scientist so often mind blown Wink

silverysky · 03/06/2018 06:21

Walking

Just feels like you are trying to make a bigger/different point

I am just putting my focus onto one thing. For the purpose of extended thought and discussion on this thread. Why do you seem so suspicious? This is the philosophy/ religion thread. It exists so we can discuss life from this angle if we want to. Why are you finding the fact I want to do this, apparently, so controversial / disturbing?

I dont really know what that means

Really? Singular and human being, I would have thought were pretty commonly understood words. I don't have to dig definitions out for you do I? Are you saying you, generally, actually, view yourself as more than one person?

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silverysky · 03/06/2018 06:22

flumpy, ok.

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OutwiththeOutCrowd · 03/06/2018 06:51

Well, Silverysky, I’m amazed too and not ashamed to admit it!

The fact that a collection of cells - some with ‘our’ DNA and some not - can come together, cooperate and compete in a complex way, and ultimately give rise to an integrated and coherent sense of selfhood is amazing.

For me, the sense of self is due to incredibly complex information-containing patterns in the brain. This sense of self can survive the substrate that holds the pattern completely renewing itself. In other words, the molecules can be replaced but the information content persists, at least for a while.

We’re all rather like ripples, eddies, vortices embedded in a universal matter-energy sea, constantly forming and dissipating from the same stuff, convinced by the illusion of our separateness.

On a rather less cosmic scale, I’ve got a small bottle of Multibionta in the kitchen. It’s chocablock with ‘foreign’ DNA but I never feel an assault on my selfhood when I take a tablet! It’s fascinating to think just how much bacteria can influence our experience of being ourselves though. Most of the body’s serotonin is produced in the gut. The bacteria in the gut can influence serotonin levels and thereby mood and behaviour.

JellySlice · 03/06/2018 06:52

I'm a human being. Only, in order to function well as a human being, I have to be less than 50% human. Yes, it is strange and amazing.

Vitalogy · 03/06/2018 07:08

We’re all rather like ripples, eddies, vortices embedded in a universal matter-energy sea, constantly forming and dissipating from the same stuff, convinced by the illusion of our separateness. oow, I love that.

Any excuse for a quote Smile "You are not a drop in the ocean, you are the entire ocean in a drop - Rumi

JellySlice · 03/06/2018 07:16

When I was having babies I read that they are born without a gut biome, their gut is sterile, and it is seeded by exposure to their mother's biome during their passage through the vagina and vulva. That is why maternal pooing during 2nd stage is not harmful, and may even be beneficial to the baby.

IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 03/06/2018 07:30

Ooooh sometime tell me about mitochondria.

I remember reading somewhere that mitochondrial DNA entered our body at a late stage in our evolution piggybacking on other bacteria. What I don’t understand is why mitochondrial DNA is so important.

Someone explain it please!

Sunrise888 · 03/06/2018 07:46

When I was having babies I read that they are born without a gut biome, their gut is sterile, and it is seeded by exposure to their mother's biome during their passage through the vagina and vulva. That is why maternal pooing during 2nd stage is not harmful, and may even be beneficial to the baby.

I had a similar conversation about this with a relative yesterday. My lo was born by cesarean and resisted breastfeeding so was formula fed, which I understand results in a very different gut biome compared to an exclusively breastfed baby. This idea of the guy being a second brain made me wonder how these factors have influenced my lo's developing sense of self and how they will shape his personality and future.

Sunrise888 · 03/06/2018 07:46

*gut not guy

JellySlice · 03/06/2018 08:20

And yet, despite having their biomes seeded very differently to an exclusively breastfed baby born by SVD, they grow up to be equally human - so does that 50% of non-human really make a difference?

Of course, further life exposure continues developing the biome. But what about a 'bubble child', born without an immune system, and obliged to live their life in a sterile bubble? Are they less human for lacking a complete gut biome?

silverysky · 03/06/2018 08:36

We’re all rather like ripples, eddies, vortices embedded in a universal matter-energy sea, constantly forming and dissipating from the same stuff, convinced by the illusion of our separateness.

Love this too, Out. And love that Rumi quote, Vitalogy.

Jelly, Sunrise, I think, as creatures, we must just functionally be providers of a home for various bacteria, no matter how we pick them up. Interesting though how different bacteria might affect us differently. That makes me wonder about the 'bubble child' too Jelly.

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silverysky · 03/06/2018 08:38

Are they less human for lacking a complete gut biome?

My 'gut reaction' (interesting expression!) is to say no. They are completely human but just have a different life experience. Our experiences can 'make us' too, though...

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JellySlice · 03/06/2018 09:08

BTW serotonin being made in the gut is new to me, and fascinating: I'm currently eating gluten in order to have a blood test for coeliac, and I feel miserable. It's not just the digestive symptoms, but the waves of depression that sweep over me.

silverysky · 03/06/2018 09:51

Oh wow, Jelly. Hope your testing is over soon and you can eat the food that agrees with you (and creates a more happy biome!). At least you know that it most probably is the biome altering food that is causing these waves of depression so hopefully you can alter this.

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flumpybear · 03/06/2018 15:31

Oooo gut-brain re gut feeling - #neurogastroenterology .... another interesting field 😎

TheHumanMothboy · 03/06/2018 19:17

Melodybirds could you elaborate on this please? :
Poo transfers is another weird one when looking at losing/gaining weight

What does this mean please?

Whipsmart · 15/06/2018 12:20

I think it's weird but cool! Like we're all just a mass of bacteria that thinks it's a person Grin

headinhands · 15/06/2018 17:49

I remember finding out about this. Was mind blown. I even shared this nugget in the staff room the next day and was clearly the only weirdo person that found it fascinating.

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