RCIA - are there any Catholics around to help answer my questions please?

[therealsquireofwideacre]

I'm feeling a bit rushed through RCIA and not getting clear answers to some of my questions. Is there anyone here that would have the patience to help me understand a couple of things please?

Sorry you're feeling rushed. I'm an RCIA teacher and we very much encourage people to ask questions: in the class, after class, by email or phone in the week, after Mass on Sunday. If your parish isn't willing to listen to your queries, maybe consider another parish? The norm in our diocese is 2 years' preparation from first interest in becoming a Catholic to actually being baptised/received, your course does seem very short (although I know of others like it so it's not necessarily abnormal). In our parish we do weekly meetings from September then a one-to-one meeting at Christmas where we mutually decide whether the person should be received that Easter or if it would be better to wait another year. Plenty of people wait.

I haven't rtft yet, just your OP, so I'll read it now and see if there's anything that still needs answering.

I'm sorry you're feeling rushed, it does sound like a very brief period of preparation. Please try and get hold of a book called The Catechism of the Catholic Church. It's big, and expensive (though worth every penny), but your library may hold some copies. It will hold explanations of every issue you can think of.

Don't be put off because of its size and language; look up Purgatory in the index, go to the first entry it refers you to (there will be several), and read it slowly, and at least twice! Alternatively, you could choose a section that interests you, and set yourself a few pages reading every night.

The Catholic Church has a massive biblical and theological backdrop; most Catholics will never know the majority of it, but whatever you can access will be rich and rewarding. Good luck!

May I ask how Catholics manage guilt? I know it's a cliché, but sin must weigh heavy?

It can, but confession is the way to manage it. I think they call it the sacrament of reconciliation these days. You make an honest confession of your sins, you do your penance and that helps. It also helps you to apply those practices in every day life, taking honest, sincere responsibility for the wrongs you've done and doing the penance required.

When you think about it, most of us don't commit mortal sins. They're really serious and since you've got to commit those acts with malice and understanding and free will, it can be quite hard! Most people generally do their best most if the time. Very few people do truly evil things.

I think it's also useful to bear in mind that, unlike other religions, catholicism isn't solely biblical or scriptural.

Have you got a copy of the Cathechism? That might help. If you don't have a paper copy, it's on the Vatican website.

As I understand it, your questions are on a) purgatory and b) guilt-joy. Do correct me if wrong. I'll give a brief(ish) answer to each, so far as I can (some have already received very good answers), but the CCC (Catechism) link will point you to relevant Scripture passages to back it up. I should be writing an essay so I don't want to give you the full 5000 word version with full Bible quotes and all as I really must get down to work. But let's give it a go.

Purgatory
Catholics teach that there are two punishments due to sin: temporal and eternal. The debt of the eternal punishment was paid once and for all by Jesus on the cross, it is what allows people to enter heaven and avoid hell. The temporal punishment may still remain. The analogy often given is that of e.g. a child who gets angry and throws a stone through a window of their parents’ house. The parents may forgive the child when s/he says sorry and the family are reunited in love, but they’ve still got a broken window which needs to be repaired and it may be appropriate for the child to contribute to that out of their pocket money, for example. Also, the child will want to show their contrition and love for the parents and so may make extra efforts e.g. to make a cup of tea, write a card etc. Eventually the window will be repaired and they’ll all put it behind them (thus it is temporal, temporary).

What happens when you die is that the particular judgement is immediate. Either heaven or hell, there are no other options in eternity. For those who are destined for heaven, however, it may be that there is still a temporal debt to pay (it may not, it is perfectly possible to unite oneself in charity to God so that the debt has already been paid during one’s life) so that one needs to be purified before entering heaven. This is purgatory. The soul is purified ready to meet God face to face in heaven.

Our prayers can help people in purgatory in the same way they can help people on earth, because we are all united in Christ as part of the Mystical Body. Christians are united not just because they all have the same goal (to follow Jesus or to be united with God or whatever other shorthand you would use to sum up the whole Christian life) but because they a members of the same body and so strive together to co-operate with Jesus the Head and thus achieve things as a body which the individuals could not.

Joy-Guilt
Catholics teach that eternal life begins now by being united with God and we don’t have an abrupt cut off point at death. So in a way it is very joyful. We also teach that there is nothing that can separate us from God except our own decision to reject him and there is no sin which is unforgiveable, so again a cause for joy in God’s mercy. And confession is an incredibly liberating experience because not only do we confess our guilt but we receive God’s forgiveness with absolute certainty, there is no doubt that we have been freed from our sins forever. You never feel guilty for long! But overall there is a deep joy and peace which comes from being with God. The guilt we do feel is suitable in order to make us realise the seriousness of sin. But there’s no need (and the Church certainly doesn’t teach) that we should feel guilty for not living up to an impossible standard. We don’t have to ‘earn’ God’s love or mercy, which are freely given. We can merit additional graces to help our own holiness and to help build up the body of Christ, but these make us better saints and it’s more like reaching our full potential than a weighing scales of good vs bad ‘works’. The picture they give is of a series of jugs full of water. A 200ml jug can be full and a 2litre jug can be full. One is not ‘fuller’ than the other but one does contain more than the other. So we can become more ‘full’ of grace not by an absolute measure of quantity, since grace is infinite, but by increasing our capacity to receive God’s grace within us, principally by charity. All the works begin and end in charity and ‘dead works’ (works done without love) are useless. So it’s not so much what you do as the love with which you do it.

Sorry that's all I've got time for now, but I hope some of it might help.

Disclaimer: I'm writing this as a Catholic for the benefit of someone who's interested in becoming Catholic. Obviously these are beliefs not scientifically provable 'facts' so when I say 'X is the case' I am not claiming that everyone in the world/the majority of people on MN agree with X, clearly not. These are truth-claims which make sense within the whole picture of faith, not absolute claims to a definitive understanding of what everything is all about.

Wow, Fink, I didn't know the Catechism was online - thanks for that! What a fab resource.

I did the RCIA 12 years ago and hated it. I was brought up in a devout Anglican family and it didn't answer the questions I had. I too have issues with purgatory, and still have issues with the perpetual virginity of Our Lady. Etc. I took the very uncatholic view that I would just ignore those bits. And it was between me and god. Becoming a Catholic is without doubt the best thing I've ever done! Could you find a priest/ seacon who could give you a bit of help? A book I found very helpful was 'Rome sweet home' by scott Hahn. Nauseating but very readable. Please pm me if you like.

CSLewis I know, it's brilliant isn't it! I use it when preparing classes etc. as it's so much easier to cut and paste than type things out. and because it comes up on google searches you don't even have to know your way around it, you can just google ' Catholic catechism x topic' and it will get the right paragraph for you.

can I ask a Qu too? (sorry OP for jumping on thread)

I know a practising Catholic. Married. Has serial affairs, despite this. Both emotional and actual.

When challenged he claims that 'the answer to why I do that is hard' and says that God will forgive him as he is sorry. Yet he still does it. But goes to confession and mass so it seems to be 'okay'.

IS this 'okay' in the Catholic faith or is this person deluding themselves?

Sorry to butt in, I just thought of it when you were speaking of Faith / good works earlier. what if you have Faith but commit bad actions?

This person is utterly deluded. That's not how confession works. The merest child who is ready for first holy communion is expected to understand that genuine contrition (on which forgiveness is entirely premised) involves a sincere resolution to never commit the sin again.

Of course people lapse but you can't say that confession has cleansed you of sins which are grave, committed with the full understanding of what you are doing and the consequences and completely with free will when you commit them repeatedly.

In fact, many would say he's making bad confessions which is pretty heavily frowned upon.

I thought so too but he says he IS 'genuinely sorry and God sees that'.
But then he cant help doing it again.

I think this is a common misconception of the Catholic Faith for 'outsiders'. That you can behave as you wish, confess, and be forgiven. Serially.
Or, you can live the life of Riley, then confess on your deathbed?

(would at least 3 affairs over 20 years, whilst married, count as a 'grave' sin?)

Well, if people are genuinely sorry they tend to not do it again. And yes, affairs would be considered quite grave. You make a promise to god, your spouse and your community during the marriage ceremony and that's not to be taken lightly.

I believe that God knows whether I am actually genuinely sorry (ie I wont do it again) or mouthing my sorry but will not try hard enough to avoid it again. If it is the former I might be forgiven, the latter I wouldn't think I would be?

He says that: 'Church Rules' do not apply in every case' and that I 'do not understand the Catholic Church'.

Is he correct pls?

Not that I know of. I'd be interested to know why he thinks the church has invented a special rule for him.

I thought purgatory was a sort of waiting room where your sole is purified ready for heaven and good works reduce the time you wait. I think you only go there if you die in a state of grace ie repented your sins. Otherwise you go to hell which I was taught was the absence of God.