Please talk to me about your opinion of evangelical style worship

[NewChristian]

My original background is Anglo-Catholic and it's very set worship. I am beginning to think this doesn't suit me.

Someone sent me a link to sermons at the Gateway Church in the US and I found some of them really helpful. But I've heard criticisms of evangelical churches from others who say that they twist scripture and can be manipulative. I've seen it on here in the past.

How are you supposed to know what is right for you? Sorry to ask but I'm very confused about where to go.

If you want a bible centred church - yes that's exactly what you will find in the "Evangelical/Born again" style churches

However you will find an incredibly literal interpretation of scripture. An extremist/radical interpretation. Most aren't quite as bold as to go as far as the westboro baptist and out and out say God hates gays, however virtually all will preach homosexuality is a demonic influence/oppression and offer "deliverance" (excorcism) from it.

They are definitely incredibly bible centred, but the interpretation of scripture isn't up for any form of discussion and anybody who holds a differed interpretation is considered not a true Christian, be it a deliberate fraud or a misguided soul in need of rescuing

These churches emphasise the US vs THEM. They celebrate their perceived superiority over other denominations.

The worship is catchy, charismatic and emotional - everybody is whipped up into a frenzy - and then the groundwork has been laid for people to accept with little questioning the literal interpretations shouted from the pulpit including the requests for ten percent and more of your money

I have personally sat in an auditorium with over 3000 people in the UK where the preacher suggested God was telling people to give amounts of money (on top of the ten percent tithe they already give) £50 £100 £1000 to "sow a seed" promising God will give back tenfold a hundredfold yadda yadda. The scariest part is 90% of people were running up to the altar to give. I sat through this kind of manipulation and hypnotism MANY times. I don't even think the preacher themselves didn't believe it though

If you want to have any freedom to interpret or question - avoid with a barge pole

Can I ask people who want to have a debate about why people choose to follow a religion/ believe in God to start your own thread please? I genuinely want people's opinions on different styles of worship and it would help if my thread wasn't derailed. TIA...

I'm not comfortable with the idea of attending a church where people are brainwashed. I am thinking that maybe I should try some of the other C of E churches in my town. The church I currently attend had a priest for a number of years who was extremely academic and ran bible study groups which were aimed at intellectuals. I had a great deal of respect for him but I would like somewhere the idea that the Holy Spirit is there to guide us is more embraced I guess.

'Inspired' doesn't mean someone was sitting down taking notes whilst God told them what to write. I think the Bible is a record of interactions with God, written by a number of people over a long time period. It isn't an instruction manual, or the golden plates that Joseph Smith 'found'. If everything tied up perfectly neatly between all the books in the Bible it would be very bizarre, given that they were written by fallible people.

We are getting a bit beyond what the OP was asking though.

Sorry NewChristian, cross post.

Somewhere between baptist and CofE is probably what your after OP

Baptist churches in the UK tend to be more reserved than in the US

Some CofE churches now run services aimed at people like you as mentioned upthread with the "rock band" worship but these are usually in the larger cities.

'sorry OP, but you're posting on a public board, so tough!'

Just because it's a public board does not mean you should have no consideration for anyone else. Just because you can post what you like does not mean that it's a decent way to behave. Why do you insist on trying to change the subject point of my thread when you could quite easily start your own with that topic to be discussed? Are you just trying to appear belligerent?

Thank you Mcoy. Your responses have all been very helpful. Can I ask what your opinion is of deliverance ministerial? This is one other thing that I've been reading about and I know that some churches do offer them but I don't know how widely.

Ministry that was supposed to say.

There's a channel on free view (TBN) id recommend watching a few programmes - you can see without any pressure what some of the evangelical churches are like

I think songs of praise have covered some of the gentler but more modern worship churches in recent months

There's also a few festivals in the UK - new wine and harvest which you could look up, not sure who runs them now but when I was in the born again scene I attended and found them belonging to a gentler version of Christianity without being as traditional as Catholic or CofE

I think almost every church offers them in a form - even Catholic Churches offer excorcism, some churches would simply call it prayer or healing

I'm no longer a Christian but felt deliverance ministry in its most obvious form in born again churches had extreme pros and extreme cons. I felt it was very dangerous how they would consider it possible to "deliver" someone of virtually everything - sickness, debt, relationship problems etc and I knew people with MH problems who didn't get treatment they should have done because they were always trying to be instantly rid of problems rather than learning to manage their reality. On the other hand I did feel instant relief when I went through it for some things - however I get the same relief from self hypnosis these days.

I personally don't agree with personifying every flaw as a demon which is what I felt happened. People viewed their flaws as external forces that controlled them.

When people think it hasn't worked they walk around convinced they've been possessed by demons - it's a pretty scary state to be in and causes a lot of MH problems. I knew parents who believed their children had demons - that's the most frightening thing to me.

They will tell you - Jesus delivered people from demons, we're only doing the same... Iv both administered "deliverance" ministry and received it, genuinely believing it was helpful in my past.

I would never ever in a million years advise someone to get "deliverance" now, however I can't say it's "unbiblical" or never works. I just feel it's a dangerous form of helping someone.

A simple prayer - if someone believes it will work - will have the same benefit without the drama and frightening manifestations (which I believe is just the personality acting out what is being suggested to it) in my personal opinion

Tends to be the Pentecostal churches and non denominational offshoots that leave behind their Pentecostal roots who actually openly call it "deliverance ministry" and would go as far as naming various spirits and demons

What kind of drama and manifestations does deliverance healing cause? In the past it has been suggested to me but I really would not want to do anything dangerous. However, I've come across someone who really feels that a deliverance experience has helped her to overcome her continual feeling of anger that she had.

What I read about deliverance is that the thinking is most people are not actually possessed but may be suffering from 'demonic oppression' in some area(s) of their lives because they've unconsciously opened up to a negative source. This is something I relate to in one specific area of my life where I changed overnight at a certain age in one respect (I think I was about 27). It seemed to be immediately in response to something which happened. At the time I didn't realise. For myself, I have more reason to believe in a spiritual realm than just my own experience. So I suppose this is something that I've been wondering about.

Thank you for the television recommendation. I will take a look at it.

This might be a bit roundabout but my dad was attending an evangelical church when he became ill with dementia. But more to the point, my brother has mental illness which Dad denied, preferring to believe "there's nothing wrong with him, he just needs to go back to college and go to church". Any mention of psychiatrists was met with angry rejection. I feel the evangelical ethos feeds into this denial by offering up notions of "healing" , "letting God into your life etc". It was only when Dad's dementia was bad enough (and my bro had barely left his room for 3 months) that i was able to over ride my dad and beg the GP to refer to a psychiatrist. Eventually he has diagnosed with schizophrenia. He is now on medication and while not "normal" he is certainly better. I am now hugely sceptical of the whole deliverance/ healing message pushed by the evangelicals. Furthermore, i work with AIDS patients, most of whom are of African origin, many of whom have been told by their evangelical pastors to trust God to heal their HIV and not take their tablets, needless to say it does not end well.

Yes there's a lot of debate over possessed vs oppressed even within the churches which do advocate the most dramatic of "deliverance ministry"

Drama and manifestation: I have heard people speak in voices that were unrecognisable, vomit, snarl, soil themselves, fall down as if unconscious, seen people writhe about on the floor and strip off their clothes and slither like snakes... All kinds of bizarre

I'm no longer a Christian so I don't take this as any form of proof, I believe the human mind is incredibly receptive to suggestion and the power of belief.

First ask yourself if they have the same views as you. Homosexuality, divorce etc. If they do or have views you can live with go for it.

I go to a small evangelical baptist church.

Our service involves about 20-30 mins of modern worship (with a band), time of notices and prayer, some children's worship (then children/teens leave for their groups) then a sermon which is broadly bible based but often uses videos/ pictures as part of it, finished off by worship and prayer and then a community lunch each week.

We're inclusive (multi-racial, people with disabilities, sorry no idea about sexuality) and open to anyone of any background - from those in our local (poor housing estate) community to an Iranian family.

We also run an anti- poverty outreach project which provides clothes, furniture and household goods to those in need, regardless of race or religion and with no obligation to attend church (though many do come to our frequent events and parties!!)

I can't tell you if an evangelical church is right for you or your family. All I can suggest is that you go and see and try it out. They are all different. In our church we're more interested in serving, and we accept everyone, and our communion is open to all who love Jesus.

I think, regarding differences of religious opinion, all I can say is that whilst God is infallible, we his people aren't. No church is ever going to be perfect because we aren't perfect. And for me personally, one of the most beautiful things I know is seeing people with profoundly different views on all manner of things coming together to worship the same God, recognising that God is bigger than all our tiny human differences.

The bible does cover this - Paul writes that some people will for example believe it to be wrong to eat meat sacrificed to idols, whereas that won't cause any kind of issue to others. I interpret that (and I'm not infallible, so feel free to disagree) to relate to all sorts of issues where there may be differing theological opinion. Essentially, Paul doesn't say one is always right and the other always wrong, but instead that if one believer has an issue with something, it would be kind and loving for others to refrain from whatever that is, when in the presence of that other individual.

An example today might be that whilst I enjoy a good drink, if I were having a meal with an alcoholic friend, I'd stick to lemonade to avoid causing temptation or sadness to my friend. Not because it's wrong for me to drink alcohol, but because it would be wrong for my friend to do so. That'll do for theological differences too - we can put aside our differing beliefs on transubstantiation, women in priesthood, homosexuality, whatever the issues might be, and concentrate instead on God. And when we do that, it's much easier to love each other, and focus on seeing God in each other rather than what we see as sin.

I think it's a lovely thing that there are churches with so many different styles of worship and robes of service in this country. That we are free to find a church family where we can be a family. My family might look very different to your branch of the family, but we still have the same Heavenly Father.

Agree with the idea of trying and seeing where you feel at home. You can still take things from other denominations even if you decide you feel you belong more to one in particular. I am Catholic, love the mass, the ritual, liturgy and feel at home and close to God in a Catholic Church. I also regularly listen to evangelical podcasts from Rick Warrens Saddleback church. All while resoundly disagreeing with both denominations teachings on certain areas such as same sex marriage. But I feel both strengthen and deepen my understanding of and relationship with Christ which is what the central message of all Christian denominations is or at least should be about.

OP, if you agree with the theology of AC but prefer a freer worship style, why not start with Anglo-Catholic Charismatics, or even the (Roman) Catholic Charistmatic Renewal movement?

I don't know about the AC version, but I have been involved with the CCR. The theology is that of the RC Church as a whole, with more emphasis on certain things (such as the working of the Holy Spirit in our everyday lives) but no contradiction or denial of anything the wider RC teaches or teaching of anything new. They have both non-liturgical prayer (e.g. praise & worship with adoration of the Blessed Sacrament) and the RC Mass with a more 'charismatic' style, i.e. the words of the Mass will be the same but there will be different music, more freedom to move around etc. Also usually a strong emphasis on preaching and reading of Scripture.

Agree with pps that there is a huge range of what might be defined as evangelical. There are for sure some conservative evangelical churches and denominations which seem rather closed, anti women in leadership, very heavy in the sense of manipulation etc. But there are open evangelical churches who are all about giving out and inclusively. For me, what I'd want to see in a church is that the ethos is about serving - serving the poor, the sick, those with mh issues etc and if they are doing this with integrity. Churches of all styles can do this. If, however, they are all about self serving and seem to be about the health and wealth thing then I would steer well clear. Any mention of churches that advises their congregants to come off meds after healing prayer would leave me utterly cold, same with any who use language of abomination about gay people etc. I would want to see evidence of loving one another, while being realistic that we are all human and mess things up.

I am open evangelical charismatic but very happy with high church elements and all between. If I see that evidence of the fruit of the Spirit ie love, patience, kindness etc etc then that is where I'd feel at home.

Saying that, my personal preference is for contemporary worship. But it has to be genuine. None of this whipping into frenzy/manipulation. I've seen it done very well and badly too. We're human!

It's probably a case of having a look around and listening to your gut on it.

It's great that this thread is not all about tarring evangelicals with one brush, in the main, as so often happens. It's great that we can be open to one another's worship styles. Just as I believe God created us with so much variety, God created us with differing likes and why shouldn't that apply to styles of worship. Lovely that we're united in worshipping our God, whether through bells and smells or Hillsong music. Love the variety. Bring it on.