Salaam. Where did the tea room go?

[LuisSuarezTeeth]

I miss you all. :(

I quite like gregorian Chant which I think is Catholic? it reminds me abit of Sufi chant/dhikr unaccompanied by anything except the voices of the singers. I find it haunting and in a different way a reminder of God the Sublime.

(In that there are so many ways used by so many different peoples to sing and reach out to God)

Thanks for the suggestions fuzzywuzzy, actually I think what I want doesn't exist, I wanted a large print Qur'an, like a4 size or bigger, with Arabic on one page and English on facing page. I've looked all over the internet and can't find one.
Music is an interesting one, I was VERY into music before becoming Muslim. Now we don't have it in the house. My husband is hafiz and says that music crowds Qur'an out of the heart. I sometimes listen to things on YouTube and I tend to regret it. For me the gap left my music was filled by qasidas (sung arabic poetry) and learning the art of tajweed. I wouldn't judge anyone else on what they do on the music issue though, that's just what feels right for me.

metimeisforwimps sister if staying away from music makes you happy and a better practicing muslim then may Allah (swt) bless you.

If you were really into music then how did you manage to cut it out from your life after becoming muslim? Must've been hard? Just wandering.

Me time the yusuf Ali translation is a4 sized, the pages are split in half with Arabic on the right and the English on the left.

I don't think I've ever seen a Quran with English on one page and Arabic on the other I shall keep an eye out for it.

Meantime for online use, the Quran explorer online is split with Arabic on one side and English on the other. Would that help temporarily?

Thanks fuzzy, I'm just trying to make my daily reading more comfortable, as then I am more likely to stick at it! I like to read the
translation as I go, as I can't understand much of the Arabic.
Bagofmilk, it was hard but took a long time, like 5 years before I really clearly decided to stop, though prior to that I gave away my personal collection. I definitely felt a gap where music had been and that was hard, but qasidas and tajweed really satisfied that need for the joy and beauty that I found in music before. Now I i find I'm very sensitive to music and get easily annoyed by it in shops etc.

Even my most religious relatives don't avoid music. I do find the differences in interpretation interesting. I suppose it's like high and low church.

metimeisforwimps I believe you are a revert, how do you address the music issue with your non muslim family.

Personally I dont get too annoyed when I hear music in a shop or just walking down the street unless it is a really awful song. Sometimes you just can't avoid it.

the Quran itself doesnt say anything against music but the difference of opinion comes from the secondary religious texts which are the hadith - compilations of sayings and actions of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). there is a narration of his walking through a market place and on hearing some music playing he cupped his hands over his ears. some muslims say because he did that it must mean he didnt approve of music so we shouldnt listen, others say had it been more than his personal preference then he would have made a religious statement to that affect. rather, it becomes something filed under his (pbuh)s own personal tastes and preferences, like Muhammad (pbuh) strong dislike for garlic etc doesnt stop garlic being a big feature of ME and asian cooking.

as for going crazy at the sales bagofmilk i told myself id never buy those things full price so was waiting for post christmas sales to begin. i think generally spending on yourself if its in moderation as with all things and relative to one's individual spending power its ok - as long as we dont go into usurious debt, buy or consume from the haram, ignore giving the zakat, that we dont burden others to meet our daily needs/expenses because we overspent etc. islam is about moderation in all things we cant all be ascetics like the prophets (some more than others eg Jesus (as) who rejected material or physical comforts) nor are we required to be. so much stuff in the Quran about moderation:

"‘And let not your hand be tied (like a miser) to your neck, nor stretch it forth to its utmost reach (like a spendthrift), so that you become blameworthy and in severe poverty’. (Al-Quran 17:29)

in reference to the servants of God:
"‘And those who, when they spend, (are) not extravagant and are not stingy but are between that – moderate.’ (Al-Quran 25:67)

"‘Eat and drink but do not be extravagant’. (Al-Quran 7:31)

"And thus we have made you a moderate Ummah (nation) so that you should be witnesses over the people and the Messenger a witness over you". (Al-Quran 1: 143)

‘Be moderate in your pace’. (Al-Quran 31:19)

‘And (do) not be loud in your prayers and not be silent therein, but seek between that a way’. (Al-Quran 17:110)

Bagofmilk its not something I'd had to address with them, as I would never ask them not to play music or anything when we are around. Its a personal choice that I keep to myself really. I'm aware its a strict interpretation, but its more the spiritual aspect that motivates . Dh is more dogmatic about it though.

Original are there types of music that more religious folk might avoid?

I once heard a lecture by I think Mufti Menk, he said music was introduced by shaitaan to the children of Cane & Able to create a pathway to transgression, it lead to sinning gradually.

I don't doubt that fuzzy,Whenever I listen to younger relatives urban music I don't doubt that gun crime and inner city violence is amped up and emboldened by those lyrics in the music glorifying violence and killing. Not everyone is susceptible to it but the closest way to the heart is through the ears not the eyes, isn't that a hadith? some music sets people to soaring with but some is an expression of hearts so angry and they take their anger through to others. Some rap and rock music is like that- Rage, suicidal thoughts, nihilism, Anger at being disrespected, the lengths they go through to make sure they get respected, the sad thing is that such songs are so popular and mainstream.

Yes of course lots take it with a pinch of salt but it lends a grievance narrative to some inclined to think the world is against them. suddenly they rewrite their life story of growing up in a leafy green suburb to the worst poverty stricken ghettos - anger music, it's not just spirituality its tied up alot with emotion.

metimeisforwimps Don't worry about it, if it helps become more connected to the deen then good on you. It is admirable to see sisters who sacrifice music for the sake of Allah.

I think alot of non muslims may see it as "strict" or " a bit weird" but its your choice. Either opinion is permissable in Islam.

moonstruck thats what appealed to me about rock music when I was a teenager. Deal with turbulent emotions like anger, sadness, shame it also appealed to the rebellious side of me. This was me being a hijabi. I even tried doing a sorta goth hijabi look for myself.

moonstruck Thanks for that wisdom from the Qu'ran. I suppose I worried about the shopping because I and DH are quite well off but I don't want to flaunt the wealth.

I am someone who can be abit of a shopaholic occasionally so the Qu'ran's emphasis on moderation helps and is a good reminder on that front. Me and DH try to be generous in charity aswell.

Moderation in all things was my father's mantra. There definately some universal truths.

With regards to music - the wee free (generally seen as the po-faced killjoy lot) would have frowned upon any other than 'church' music on a sunday, and probably anything 'popular' the rest of the time. Im not sure what the modern ones get up to. Not that rock and pop music was forbidden but your granny would tut tut and pull a face. But if you've ever heard a Christian rock group, you'd agree that a music ban would be an excellent thing (think of Cliff Richard).

Some of the more sectish types (mostly in the US - the ones who don't believe in evolution, etc) really don't like pop music or things like harry potter at all. You'd be hand in hand with the devil if you enjoyed either.

Or magicians - we had a chap who really got a bee in his bonnet when the vicar organised a magician to come and entertain the kids at a prayer day. He announced that he was a conjurer and therefore evil. The chap was regarded as rather odd though in general.

Where we live it is a middle Eastern playground and there is bling-ey consumption the likes you've never seen. My family laugh at their ostentatiousness but don't condemn them. I suppose you have to find your own path but I feel sorry for people who struggle when a religion is new to them, and the interpretation they have/is offered to them is very different from their own or home culture. I knew one convert who had some strict practices that her husband insisted on as being Muslim. She saw so much in black and white and was very dismissive/insulting even, of the uk, people, culture etc even though she is very English.

bagofmilk i know what you mean about goth hijabi, not me but i had a fair few friends who sported that look. punk hijabis and emo ones too, i was totally not like that when i was younger, probably more what originalmavis would describe as po-faced lol. id dress in black abayah and hijab all the time as i thought anything else would be shallow and ostentatious, wore 3 sizes larger than i was to force myself to rise above any sense of vanity, never wore makeup, and wearing hijab was an excuse not to bother with my hair! believed spending money on oneself was frivolous, all of one's excess money should go to charity of course...etc. then somewhere along the way i learnt that looking frumpy wasnt islamic, indeed 'Allah is Beautiful and He loves Beauty', and i saw a few sisters who i looked up to in their deen take a more balanced approach to their appearance and also their worldly affairs. and slowly i got rid of the guilt that i wasnt a natural ascetic like the great sufi saints of old who i looked upto!
i think the catalyst was having children as they tether you to the dunya/temporal world a whole lot more. men as well as women, you start thinking about the future and securing as good and as stable a foothold in it for your children. something i didnt care about for myself suddenly i wanted my children! i wanted them dressed well, nice hair, good clothes and shoes from 'naice' shops etc. .especially being aware of racist or cultural assumptions that 'oh they just pop kids out one after the other they dont take care of them well etc'. for their self esteem and mine, i thought if i choose that lifestyle for myself thats fine but its not fair on them to force them to the minimalist way of living with other things to be hard on them in the future.
if Allah blessed you with wealth there shouldnt be any guilt in that sis and you've got the right mentality about it which is to give charity/sadaqah on it as well as use it for yourself and your family.

"And give to the kindred (relative) his due and to the Miskeen (poor) and to the refugee. But spend not wastefully (your wealth) in the manner of a spendthrift." (Al Quran, 17:26)

as the Quran says i try to make sure to help relatives in difficulty, and to send money for the poor and refugees (ibn as sabeel) but even in that not to be wasteful. the important religious inheritance law that it is better to leave money to your children than to give your wealth away in charity implies that you build up and save something to pass onto for them. the sharia rule that only 1 third can go to non heirs in sunni religious law is from this hadith (featured in 5 different hadith collections)...

Narrated Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas (RA): "I was stricken by an ailment that led me to the verge of death. The Prophet came to pay me a visit. I said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have much property and no heir except my single daughter. Shall I give two-thirds of my property in charity?" He said, "No." I said, "Half of it?" He said, "No." I said, "One-third of it?" He said, "You may do so, though one-third is also too much, for it is better for you to leave your offspring wealthy than to leave them poor, asking others for help..." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Sahah Muslim, Muwatta, Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud and Ibn Majah.)

the prophet (pbuh) said upto 1 third but even that was too much, and that it was better for that companion to leave his daughter with a large inheritance and so not in need of asking others for help rather than giving all away in charity.

sorry not all away but giving a large proportion away.

metime i really like the website www.quran.com for looking up multiple translations of single verses but find when i want to look at a group of verses together in a surah the multiple translations make it difficult to follow. when im reading a surah in full i like www.quranexplorer.com as fuzzy mentioned as that has half the page in english and half in arabic. that would be awesome to find a book like that also. my favourite translation is yusuf ali too.

moonstruck part of the reason why I was a goth hijabi was a search for a unique identity for myself. As a teenager I had an "identity crisis" became frustrated by the fact that my Dad's family tried "Arabize" me and my mum's family tried to "desify" me. Also I was bullied and picked on at school so I felt quite lost and weak. Me being a goth hijabi (with my goth boots lol) gave me that identity where I was rebelling against both my parents cultures, their "corrupted Islam" as I saw it and against western culture. It felt very empowering for some reason and I felt that feeling of purity.

Eventhough I was a goth hijabi who liked RUmi's poetry, I did try to embrace a "Salafi-ish" Islam in order to practice a pure Islam liberated from "culture". I know it seems quite contradictory but to me at the time it made sense and back then I would be "liberal" in "Salafi" terms yet still a puritan "Salafi/Wahhabi" to non-Salafis. "Salafi-Sufism" as my mum once said of my practice. Yes very weird and contradictory.

I even used to write songs and poetry terrible ones (I can play the guitar though I am rusty) expressing my feelings and other stuff. They were almost always religious, had religious themes or had religious language. It was a way of truly expressing what I felt especially as I got bullied at that time.

When I was young I had this thirst for Islam and knowledge (Islamic & secular) as a result of my Salafi sympathies but if you jump in straight at the deep end it can be overwhelming so one must go about it gently and steadily. Not to sound arrogant but at 19 I will contend that I had more knowledge on Islam and the various Islamic disciplines and history than my friends and most of the muslims I knew that were my age. Some never even heard of the word fiqh. lolz I suppose not a high ceiling to break eh.

Now, I am your standard, Orthodox, Sunni, Madhab following (kind of), Sufi Muslim who still has not let go of some of my Salafi instincts, for example I ask for daleel ALOT still. But I have more or less rejected Salafism as a whole for various reasons.

One day Inshallah I will have to write a long post on Salafism to give my critical and balanced view of it. Because it seems I am rambling.

haha...I also want my kids to look good for the exact same reason as you.

Just wanted to say that I hope any of you who live in the ME or any of your friends and family who do are safe. It all seems to be escalating quickly and to be very volatile.

I pray for peace, security, calm and tolerance in the region and around the world every day.

Thank you Lessstressed, in our house we haven't been personally affected yet, but are watching the news all the time, and so many people we know have had their lives turned upside down, may God reward them for their patience.

moomstruck and bagofmilk you both sound like you thought very deeply about things when you were teenagers. Interestingly I was also into the goth/grunge look, and instinctively liked to wear loose covering clothes. As i got older I gave in to advice to 'show off my figure' etc etc, but when I came to Islam it was so much more comfortable to cover up! I've always had a kind of alternative style and I still try to maintain that even with my abaya etc! So I have a kind of goth-like coat, and cool plimsolls!

I think with everything going on at the moment, people are coming back to traditional Islam more. I think people are more inclined to look at where ideologies come from, both geographically and politically, in a way that wasn't so urgent before, and that gives a lot of answers.

May God guide us and bring peace and help those who are not able to live in situations of peace at this time.

lessstressed Thank you for your thoughts I have family in Lebanon and Pakistan so I pray for their safety all the time. I really got scared when I heard of the Beirut bombings but Alhamduillah my family there are safe. Sadly, I know people whose lives or family's lives have suffered as a result of this crisis. Inshallah things will get better.

metimeisforwimps I think people are coming back to traditional (or Orthodox) Islam alot more is because of globalization and Islamic revival. People have way more access to Islamic knowledge than they did 50 years ago because of globalization and shrinking of distances between muslims. We are seeing an intellectual and spiritual revivial in Islam. In my opinion even if its in its embryonic stages.

Reformists and liberal modernists will argue that traditional Islam needs a complete reform, not so. Personally I would say traditional Islam needs a "re-focusing" rather than a complete reform (though we can have that debate about reform seperately) because let's be real certain cultural practices have piggybacked on traditional Islam and Sufism that are clearly un-Islamic and became "tradition". For example banning women from the masajid, worshipping at graves, amulets etc. People never inquired into the Islamic basis for these things and just accepted them because it was part of the culture and their "sheikh" said so and these people were ignorant as they did not have enough knowledge to question these things.

I'll stop here before I write an essay. Basically all I'm saying is we need put Islam over culture and tradtions that are anathema to it.