Shocked by negative feelings towards faith schools

[BellaLasagne]

Hi,

We've just applied to send our ds to a very popular and oversubscribed CofE secondary school. As we're out of the catchment area we've had to apply for a Church place and have had our commitment and activity within the Church scrutinised and reported on by our parish priest.

While, on the whole, I generally think it's rediculous that anyone has to go through this to get a school place, I'm getting concerned about the amount of 'anti faith school' comments that exist not only on this website but in the media in general.

Is my ds going to be 'victimised' by others in the future for what we are doing, because we believe that we're doing the best for him.

Just need some reassurance I think.....

Thanks, BL

I can't see why he should be victimised for going to a church school. Church schools are very popular in this area but only 10% of the intake have to have a commitment to the church.

I really don't think so. There is a lot of hysteria about faith in the media atm, mainly because our society has become so secular that people have forgotten what it means to believe in something. Soon it'll be something else that we're all getting uptight about.

Of course your ds won't be victimised!

However I do think it's wrong that you should be given a place in a school when you are not within the catchment area based on religious selection. Everyone pays the taxes, everyone should have equal access to the schools in their area. IMO

Those in the catchment area get 1st priority, CD, then there's an extra 80 Church places per year, so everyone does get access.

The church school in the next village to us as the same entry requirements. First, the village children, then church-goers, then anyone else.

No - isn't it the case that 25%+ of all state schools are faith schools of some description.

But if you are in a multi-faith area then I do think that you need to be aware of how "exclusive" the school is. If the school happens to be in an area with a large Asian population, then they will be excluded from applying to that school in favour of people living further away. So I doubt you will face antaginism in the long term (eg on a cv), but not everyone will view the school allocation system as being "fair".

I've lived in an area where the church school was mainly white with around 20% of children ebing black, and the alternative state school was 70% asian, and the remaining 30% mixed. Neither school was representative of the area but the Asian population could only choose one of the two schools.

personally the only thing I object to is 'faith' being pulled into a 'community school'

it seems there is NO choice for those who do not follow a particular religion to have a non-faith school by which I mean one that has RE lessons so children understand about all religions but does not need to have a religious observance during assembly

We live in a predominantly white non-multi-ethnic area of the West Country.

In which case I couldn't really see any reason for antagonism!

Ahh I think I understand your op now

do you mean will he be victimised by the other kids because he is in on a church place?

Yes! (sorry - obviously didn't explain myself clearly)

Will it be that obvious Bella?
And, I would hope that in a faith school, bullying on religious grounds would be watched for very carefully. Won't he be one of 80 in the intake? So another 79 children who come from families who are active at their place of worship?

My SIL chucked at me a few weeks ago "the only reason you're going to church is to get your children into a faith school" (they're currently not old enough).

I was to say the least! However the last laugh was on her, because she didn't know that I was training to be a lay minister and now she does (DH initially didn't want her to know because of him getting stick over it). I think most people would say that it would be a bit extreme going to those sort of lengths to get your children into a faith school!

Back to your comment - I don't see why anyone would hold it against your DS.

The reason fatih schools are criticized is that they can be socially divisive and encourage division (remember the horrors of Holy Cross 5 years ago?), they may teach superstitious propaganda and mythology as though it's fact (Vardy acadameies and creationism), they can discourage individuality, and may waste too much time on superstitious waffle: I wet to achurch school and we had to spend far too much time in bloody church!
I'm all in favour of kids learning about religions - including why wars are started over such nonsense - but I wouldn't want my DS force-fed propaganda.

Some of the criticism on this site are fro me so I shall explain.

We live in a very small town with 2 schools, only one that we are in the catchment for. I don't have transport to take the boys to the other school and its a 45 minute trek uphill, with an ASD child to boot. it'd be 4 times a day with nursery and just doen't work.

So the other school, out catchment one, is across the road- 3 minutes max walk. It is better provided for and bigger. It is also hyper religious- all kids have to take scripture exams from reception up and church funds the school in part (part LEA, part an old will).

So my kids are not Christians. That doesn't mean they are not raised spiritually- in fact 2 are Christened but we were thrown out of the Church at home because the SN one annoyed the Vicar by his compulsive foot tapping, we sued to attend regularly. I guess I lost my faith then. So the boys are raised in a loving sharing environment inspired by the teaching of Jesus BUT not in with any organised religion, and I have increasingly coe to re-evaluate my definition of God as something internal.

Anyway school doesn't appreciate this: DS3 doesn't receive any help with his potential SN (lack of speech etc) but they have worked very ahrd to get his hand hel correctly for prayer. And then DS1 with his ASD- there's no funds available for any support whatsoever but plenty for religious visits / visitors etc.

Anyway my personal feeling is that I have no problem with the provision of CofE (or here CofW) schools as long as there is an alternative to those who don't follow the Faith. I describe myself these days as 'rather Buddhist' and that is probably the best I can come up with. the kids however are not allowed any RE instruction bar the testaments (they teach the Old and call it Judaism to fulfil education driteris), and all mention of other religion is dealt with in a missionary they should convert! style of attitude.

PeachyIsNowAChristmasFruit,

Schools dont have catchment areas as such anymore. I think with a child with special needs such as ASD you would get a place on social/ medical grounds. You would need to get a health professional to confirm it.

You can refuse for your children to take part in the spirtual side of the school. I think you would have a really strong cases if your nearest non religous school is 3 minutes walk.

I am shocked that you were thown out of a church for having a child with special needs. I hope you complained to the bishop. Your family would be welcome at our church. There is a severely autisic boy who sometime comes to our church and no one minds. It was really sad last christmas when the little boy was in floods of tears because the christmas service was a different format to the usual Sunday service.

I'm shocked they're not fee-paying.

Peachy,

I'm also shocked you were thrwn out of church because of your child's sn. That's appalling. All I can say is that most churches would welcome you with open arms - it's jusat sad that that's not your experience.

Anyway, I want to defend faith schools! On two (poss three) grounds: 1) I genuinely think they're better than non-faith schools, 2) I used to work in one, and 3) I would really much rather that my dcs go to a faith school if poss.

The reason I think they are better than other schools is more through observation than any coherent argument. What I think it might come down to tho is that in faith schools there is a real and very strong sense of community, which provides the context for achievement and discipline. The good and the bad are all shared by and owned by the community. IME parents at faith schools have made a positive decision to send their dcs there which means that they are much more willing to support the school and to take a role in discipline (but not always).

I must also add that the school in which I worked was RC and I'm not one myself (but I am an active christian). There were morning and afternoon prayers, and an RC RE course was followed but creationism wasn't taught in science and the rest of it was much the same as any other good school would provide. One colleague used to say that we were much more catholic than Catholic (IYSWIM).

Maybe I'm lucky but I've experienced being in an excellent faith school and I've also worked in others (some still v. good). In terms of dividing society - hmmm. THe kids at the RC school where I worked did loads of things with others - sports, drama, dancing, Brownies etc. THere was no sense of superiority or 'otherness'. And as for brainwashing - I read the syllabus for RE and what I 'd say is that it taught from the perspective of 'Catholics believe xyz because xyz....' The kids were taught to analyse and to understand and also to question the tenets of the faith. (Maybe this was quite progressive - I don't know). THey were also taught how other religions see key issues. So I wouldn't call that brainwashing.

As I said I'd much rather that my 2 go to a faith school. I'd be delighted for them to go to the RC school where I taught.

Just to give a positive side to the story!

There is a Roman Catholic school in Hemel called John F Kennedy (JFK) which got "Outstanding" for its OFSTED. I am an active Christian, but I am not a catholic. My son wouldnt stand much chance of getting into JFK as its extremely popular at the moment. If I was to choose to send my son to a secondary faith school it would be Townend Church of England School in St Albans which is quite a long way away.

I find it silly that there are children being bused from places like Berkhamsted to JFK and children being bused from Hemel Hempstead to St Albans when the religious beliefs of protestants are very close to catholics. I feel that all this travelling huge distances to schools is bad for the enviromnent.

Also Hertfordshire county council is going to charge for transport to faith schools. A poor C of E family in Hemel will not have the option of a faith school, but a rich Catholic family in St Albans who live near Townsend Church of England school could decide to send their child to JFK.

Christians grours like Baptists have little chance of their children going to a popular faith school however committed they are. I would prefer faith schools to recongise all sects of christianity.

Slightly off-topic but related - I want my child to go to a CoE school in the area. Both DH and I are confirmed CofE and are active in a church in Durham (in fact we run the Student Ministry Team and are active helpers on Alpha Courses), so we don't actually attend the church near are home or affiliated with the school (we live in Stockton-on-Tees).
Does it matter which church you attend as long as you can prove you are committed Christians?
BTW yes I also think that Christians (as well as Muslims) seem to be getting a raw deal in the media. There has been a real backlash against people with faith, at best we are labelled as deluded fools and at worse, warmongerers!

I think you need a letter from a priest/vicar supporting your application, so so long as you have that, it should be fine I think, I don't think it matters where the churchis, so long as its not 100s of miles away. Best to check with the school though, to make sure.

Anyone see Perfect Parents last night?

The negativity from me is because I feel there is just no justification for the existence of faith schools - particularly when it is 90% state funded. It is socially divisive and discriminates against those who do not follow that faith even though we all pay taxes that support that school.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a faith in which you believe and practice - I do - but there is no reason, imo, to need a special school in which to do it.

Imo, faith should be practised in the home and at a place of worship and should be entirely separate from the school system where all children should have the same chance of attending a school, regardless of faith, and where they learn about all faiths as part of their wider education.

You can't convince me otherwise! It's just logical to me.

And I just want to add that I have nothing at all against the people who use the schools - they exist so of course if you are in a position to get into one and it's a good school then good for you, who wouldn't!

I just don't agree with them in principle and am sort of that it's 'allowed'. Why are we allowed to discriminate on the grounds of religion when there would be uproar if we tried to do it on race? Can you imagine schools only for English people or whatever? No!! I could be missing something there but to me it's the same thing.

I completely agree with you GGook. In fact we are moving our dds to a community school in September, to avoid them going to the CofE Jnr school attached the the Infant school they attend now. I would be happy for them to be taught about religion as a cultural aspect of life, but not as 'the truth'.

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