A philosophical question about God

[rosie79]

Would it be possible for God to create a rock that is too heavy for Him to lift?

Would this be a rock Schroedinger's (sp?) cat would know about?

I was thinking more along a questioning about the beliefs people hold about God rather than the quantum mechanical theories behind the paradox that is Shroedinger's cat... I guess the question posed does present a paradox of observation, one that a whole essay can be written about (but my head hurts).
I guess what I'm interested in is whether people who truly believe in God (that is, the Christian/Muslim/Judaic God) who is all powerful and can create anything instantly, think about such hypothetical questions as the one posed or whether they dismiss them because they do not fit with what they already believe? Not sure if I'm explaining myself very well, but if God can do anything, then he can create a rock too heavy for Him to lift, but if He can do anything He can lift it, so He either fails on one or the other, so therefore philosophically speaking He doesn't exist or odesn't have the qualities that religious people give to Him. How do believers get around this mind boggling stuff??? (I know it's hypothetical and I probably think too much by the way)

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Brain exploded reading that!!!

Yes bloss, exactly the kind of explanation I'm looking for! Everything is just a series of words put together by man and doesn't necessarily have meaning. But couldn't that also be true about a lot of the beliefs that religious people believe in? People have attached certain words to God like omnipotent, but that doesn't mean that it is true any more than it is true that he can create a rock that is too heavy to lift. As you said, it is just "nonsense dressed up in good syntax", but it's not necessarily more nonsense than the dogma attached to organised religion...
Becides, the argument about the rock is only nonsense because it doens't fit with people's beliefs about an omnipotent god. But really it is no more nonsense than Jesus turning water into wine surely? It all depends on whether it fits with existing schema about the world. Theoretically, the question is not as nonsensicle as boiling hot snow because there does exist in this world rocks that are too heavy for poeple to lift, it doesn't go against any laws of nature for this to occur, so your argument contains weaknesses but gives a good insight into how religious people get around these problems.

Also doesn't fit with the concept of God that I, personally, hold. God, to me, is an 'essence'.. the amalgamation of the whole of everything.. literally all that is. So trying to conceive if 'Him' being 'someone' who can or can't lift something is irrelevant and nonsensical.. even at the same as being, as has been said, a clever stringing together of words.

Man then goes on to prove that black is white and gets run over on the next zebra crossing (spot the Douglas Adams fan!)

Rosie, I don't think Bloss it talking nonsense at all. You are asking her to argue the unarguable. Ultimately its nothing to do with what you believe about God. If I were to ask you to calculate the square root of -2, could you do it? Could God do it? Could anyone do it? No, of course not!

Also, if God exists outside of space and time, then notions that are necessarily delimited by space and time (such as weight, height, colour, etc.) become meaningless. (One thinks of the Monty Python 'Meaning of Life' sketch 'Oh God, you are so big... we're all pretty impressed down here I can tell you...'!?). It's possible to apply abstract terms (love, compassion, even anger, etc.) to God, but not concrete ones.

square root(-2) = 1.41421356 i

Your question is illogical Rosie. God is indeed omnipotent - all powerful. He can do anything, except the logically impossible. If he is all powerful, then it is a nonsense to ask whether he could create something over which he would have no power.

Your question might as well read: "Can God do something that God cannot do?" or "Can God find the limits of his unlimited abilities?"

God cannot do the logically impossible, because the logically impossible is simply not there to be done.

Just because you can ask a question, does not mean the question has any meaning beyond being a properly constructed piece of English.

Tinker, but that cannot actually exist - its irrational. And not only is it irrational, its approximate

Same reasons why god can't exist = irrational

Rational and irrational are a matter of perspective. Irrational surely means "irrational within my understanding".. which is not the same as impossible.

Which is why scientists often discover the scientifically inexplicable.

C.S Lewis said that if God were small enough to fit within the framework of his (CSL's) reasoning, then that God would be too small to be worth believing in (or words to that effect!)

This is good, thank you everyone for contributing. I do agree that just because you can ask a question doesn't mean it follows that it is logical. I find a lot of philosohpical thinking like this, and if it osunded like I was accusing bloss of talking nonsense I didn't mean to, I just meant these kinds of concepts are no more nonsense than some of the concepts of God.
Shinehappy peopleholdinghands - I too think of God as being more like what you described than as some kind of higher being up in the clouds that looks like a man, so these human concepts don't really apply anyway.
I do like a good debate though and like seeing how other people react to these hypotheticals. My non-virtual friends and family get a bit sick of it so I thought I'd spare them and post here insead!
Don't mean any disrespect to people's different beliefs in God or anything by the way!

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My (rusty) degree is also in Maths, and I know how useful i has been in science. I also recall a mathematical proof for that the square root of -2 is irrational, I don't recall a similar proof for the non-existence of God.

Still, enough of my babblings, I was just trying to demonstrate the futility of such arguments

I'll shut up now. If I don't participate any more, its not because I'm not interested, its just that I have a lot on at the moment, and am supposed to be cutting down on my internet time!

I know my arguments aren't great, I don't have a degree in philosophy or anything and have not had many of these concepts explained to me, but I can't help thinking about them. At least the knowledge that people have been grappling with them for centuries is reasuring, I'm not the only one! Sorry if you think my thinking is juvenile or simplistic, I'm trying to understand these things more and find out the arguments that have been put forward so sorry if I sound like I'm talking rubbish, I probably am, but I am trying to sort out my own logic and sort the questions worth asking from the rubbish ones. You may have done these questions to death bloss but I haven't. without asking people these things how can I get answers and sort it all out in my head? I wasn't for a minute suggesting that I already had the answers and simply wanted to antagonise others or anything. I want my arguments to be more logical,but the only way to do this is to keep asking and find out what other people think surely? (after all, your arguments are better because you have done these questions to death and studied philosohpy and stuff ) We all have to start somewhere.

Rosie, its cool, I never meant you to feel you can't ask questions. I'm useless at arguing too!

I think the point is, if God can do everything, he can create something he can't lift. But if God can do everything, how come he can't lift the thing he's just created?

Thats why people are saying they can't answer it. My facetious answer (sorry ) as God can do everything he can simultaneously lift it and not lift it

Now you've made me break my rule - not to post anymore on this! Now I REALLY won't post anymore!

And no, I haven't studied things to death. I've only just started my studies, and thats what I should be doing, instead of posting on here!

you are just going to have to sit on the naughty chair then MaryBS won't you ?!

Rosie, don't worry too much about folks calling the question 'illogical' or 'nonsense' ... these words are not meant in a perjorative sense against you, they have a cold, literal meaning within the realms of Logic (as a philosophical school) and are intended to describe the question being put, rather than being intended as a slight against you.

Thanks bobsdad! It makes it clearer actually.