We're always being told we should respect other people's beliefs, but....

[Hakluyt]

.....what exactly does "respect" mean in this context? I am an atheist, and I am always happy to be challenged on my lack of belief, and am frequently told that I must have no moral compass and that I have to put up and shut up when Christianity imposes itself on me. I have also been told that I must have no sense of wonder- and, on on particularly memorable occasion, that I couldn't possibly have any charitable impulses!

But if I say anything even remotely "challenging" about faith or people of faith,bi am accused of disrespect. So, what exactly does respecting other people's beliefs mean?

I thought "churching" of women after babies was to cleanse them so they were allowed to go back to church as giving birth had made them "unclean"?

I don't know huge amounts about religion but I'm sure that is what I have heard about that.

You know i learn more about Christian traditions here than i do at church!

Do you know, i think we actually all agree about not of the points raised. We're just coming from different perspectives.

"Churching" in modern times is a nice, gentle interpretation of earlier "cleansing" ceremonies.

And any Christian who follows Leviticus about homosexuality should also be careful about touching menstruating women. Even though Jesus did......

What does happen if you touch a menstruating woman? Is it something specific?

You become unclean and have to be ritually purified too before you can pray.

Are MN removing the link or the thread? Can't see why?

As for the adherence to old testament rules being rare in Christianity that can't be right. There are plenty of Christians (even on MN) who say that every word in the OT was put lovingly in place by god's own hand. I haven't asked each of them individually for a statement so if anyone doubts they exist they will have to do things like read the news and go out and talk to people themselves

The link. I asked them to.

phew that's ok then. I agree about the link of course.

DioneTheDiabolist

Various passages in the Old Testament make it clear that menstruating women are to be considered "unclean". Nobody should touch her or even anything that she has touched or sat on otherwise they will be considered unclean too. Once her bleeding has stopped, she should still consider herself unclean for a further seven days, then she has to go to the temple for sacrifices to me made on her behalf to atone for the sin of her uncleanness.

Other passages say that if a couple have sex while the woman is menstruating then the couple should be shunned.

And no "just man" would touch a menstruating woman.

I don't know why you would find it so hard to understand that there are a few Christians around who do actually follow what The Bible says!

Perhaps you should Back, you too Hak. If someone asks you to do something, ask them what they mean by it, instead of asking lots of other people in a different context, what that person meant.

I am aware of those passages Respect and that following them is rare in modern Christians. Unless you are Hak in whose experience such beliefs are "not uncommon".

How common have you found these beliefs Hak? How many Christians do you know who don't share a bed when menstruating? What have you said to them about it?

Just checked back to be sure, and my comment about not sharing a bed while mnstruating referred to people of faith, rather than specifically Christians. The example I gave was a Christian, but I know that Orthodox Jews and some Muslims have that belief. And it hasn't actually been a topic of conversation. If it were, I would say it was misogynistic and outrageous.

I think the ready availability of a recent link showing a Christian expressing exactly this adherence to scripture might suggest it's not all that uncommon. And it is a given that other Leviticus passages are used to support resistance to gay marriage legislation, so what's the big deal?

Your posts seem very passage aggressive, even down to the "are you OK?" which came out of nowhere. I can't help wondering why. Do you feel defensive for some reason?

Dione loads of people have all sorts of beliefs.

Many people follow a different flavour of Christianity to your "modern Christian" ideas. It is not as unusual as you might think to have all sorts of beliefs that many would consider to be rather extreme. Just because it is not maybe something that goes on where you live does not make it automatically extremely rare. In the part of London I live for instance we have a large number of members of an extreme (fundamentalist) Christian group and also nearby a large number of members of a fundamentalist Jewish group.

I think that if you look around the country you will find more people following dictates that the "average" person (whether CofE or otherwise) would find unusual than you seem to think. That is the landscape of modern Britain.

TBH I follow the idea that if you don't bother me I won't bother you. BUT I don't want religious observation in state schools, I don't want special dispensation for religious sensibilities when it comes to equality/discrimination issues, I don't want the Bishops in the house of Lords and I don't want people able to get away with acting in ways that are strongly against the grain of our society because of their faith.

Sorry, that was to DioneTheDiabolist

Loads of people have all sorts of beliefs. Exactly Seven, therefore I would assume that it is common sense to ask the individual what they mean when they ask you to "respect their beliefs".

No Respect I am not feeling defensive. What I am feeling is the same as atheists who rightly complain when people take an example of what one atheist said/did and use it to make sweeping generalisations of all atheists.

Erm it's not polite to ask an obviously very religious / fundamentalist person who has certain beliefs IRL why they have them! I'm not about to start asking my neighbours why the women dress a certain way or why they feel that the man is the head of house and everyone else has to do what he says! That would be disrespectful as asking them about things that I am clearly going to wildly disagree with can only really be nosy / a challenge can't it.

(Although they are quite keen to give me unsolicited advice to the effect that I should use "physical punishment" on my children!!!! )

Plus the answer is going to be because XYZ in the Bible isn't it which isn't going to enlighten anyone.

I did ask them what church they went to though and googled it to try and find out as I am interested in this stuff and it pays to know what you're dealing with! No joy though.

"What I am feeling is the same as atheists who rightly complain when people take an example of what one atheist said/did and use it to make sweeping generalisations of all atheists."

Who has made any sweeping generalizations?

I think the question is a sweeping generalization Hak. I think that "respect for beliefs" is specific to the individuals and context involved. There is little point in asking people not involved in the original convo, what was meant by it. It will mean different things for different people in different contexts.

Perhaps that's why your last thread on this topic left you "none the wiser".

Dione-I do rather wonder who died and made you queen of the internet.........

It was a wee old woman called Simon. Did you not hear about it? She said that I was to be Queen of the Internet in her will.

And so it was written and so it was done.

Bigdorrit, what do you think would have been a better or more appropriate response to Hak's post at 22:11?