Ok, I AM a Christian, so why does it bother me....

[tissy]

...that my 4 year old daughter comes back from her "non-denominational school" singing hymns and asking awkward questions about God?

I thought they wouldn't get much "religion" in P1, maybe sing "All things bright and beautiful" in assembly and work on the Christmas story a bit after half term. Instead, I swear she can sing at least five hymns by heart and has announced that she didn't come out of my tummy, as I had previously told her, but that God made her.

I know the husband of her teacher is an elder of the kirk, so suspect that it is coming from her, and she is lovely in other ways, so don't feel the need to complain, but I do feel a little uncomfortable with the intensity of it all, and a little upset for the children who do not come from a Christian background. There aren't many in Kilmarnock, it is true, but there are at least two muslim kids in her class.

Yes, I know what you mean. I think it's important to work out what is of highest importance to you in a church, and what you're not too bothered about, and things you really are not comfortable with, and work around those. Sometimes it takes a while to figure out what those things are - the last few years for us have been a journey of finding out what is truly non-negotiable to us in a church, and we still haven't really got it sussed.

It is awful that the priest charged for doing a child's funeral - how heartless. I'm praying for you honey, that you find a place to call home soon (you could say the same prayer for me if you don't mind!)

Texasrose is right. I do confuse "Christianity" with Chirst. I have no idea what Christ said, nor indeed does anyone else.
I've often thought that the recent hostility towards evolution by many Christians is partly due to people like Richard Dawkins applying evolutionary theory to Churches.
Evolution teaches us very firmly that in the long term any complex system either acts for it's own good, or dies.

A big thing missing from Christianity either the "historical" teachings of Jesus, or the majority of stuff they made up for political reasons is uncertainty.
Many ethical choices have to be made not in the light of religious certainty, but when you don't know all the facts. Almost no reasoning under uncertainty as we would now recognise it happenedd before 1700 when all the major religions had ossified to their current form.
The standard bits of "religious" ethics, such as not hurting people. truth etc are OK, but they are unsatisfactory after the age of 4.

Just out of interest Dominic are you planning on reading Dawkins' new book? (only out in hardback ATM)

Possibly.
I buy his model of religion as a contagious mental illness, and the meme idea. Certainly I share his disgust at the way superstition and pseudo science like homeopathy are treated as if they were a rational view of the world.

But he's short on solutions.
Science is not about being "right". It's about assembling an argument and proof that you are righnt. Sometimes it is about using these tools to solve a problem, such as the way that most people lack the equipment to tell when they're being fooled.
In his earlier books he shows how humans lack of an intuitive grasp of even elementary probability leaves us vulnerable to this stuff, but I suspect his mindset as a evolutionary biologist means that he sees this as an observation, not as an engineering puzzle.
Might read it one day but am in no ruch.

Steve Jones is better, but in his own way rather more hard line about delusional frameworkss, just with a softer voice.

Hmmm...a contagious mental illness...contagious yes, definitely. The stronger faith is, the more contagious it is.

But mental illness? Obviously I'm biased but 'illness' suggests something wrong, powers diminished , the body not functioning correctly. I can remember my life before faith and I can say honestly that the opposite is true - I am able to do so much more and be so much more because of my faith. It's not just me - from time to time you read statistics that say that regular church-goers live longer, have lower stress levels, have more sex and less illness than non-church-goers. Doesn't sound like an illness to me!

So in a perculiar kind of way I'd agree with Dawkins but from the opposite POV - I'd say that religion is contagious mental health.

Having said that, St Paul wrote that if the resurrection were not real, CHristians among all people on earth are most to be pitied (for their delusion). So I can see why, if you don't believe in the resurrection as a powerful truth at the centre of CHristianity, it wuold all seem like a big delusion. Thankfully my life and the lives of so many thousands of others do bear out the truth that 'in Christ we are new creations'. No wonder I'm biased!

Tissy- my view on the topic is that morality/ethics/worldview is ultimately the job of the parent... and I believe in the long run what you teach and instill will have a greater impact than what one teacher does/says over the course of a year. I can see how the intensity of it could make you squirm, but I doubt you'll have a 16 year old on your hands that sings hymns all day.
I was at our neighbourhood playground last Saturday, and finally left with my daughter because there was this three year old kid who was blathering on and on- every other word out of his mouth was "motherfucker".

If mine turns out to be one of the ones that sings hymns instead of the 'motherfucker this and that' variety, I'll be relieved.

DC,
Sometimes in Old Testament scriptures, a shepherd is..just a shepherd. But in many places, the word has a deeper subtextual message that refers to "a King".

I can't seem to find the verses that talks about "driving" sheep. Most speak about caring or healing. Isaiah 40v.11: He tends his flock like a shepherd: He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart; he gently leads those that have young.
Ezek 34:I will search for the lost and bring back the strays. I will bind up the injured and strengthen the weak.

Is sheep an allegory for stupid people? Maybe. Or maybe oblivious and ungrateful. Think about the job of a shepherd: going out in the driving rain and cold for hours in the darkest part of the night, maybe running into wolves or lions; it's a pretty sacrificial, thankless job.

I'm pretty simple, I'll admit. But you know not all christians are stupid, so why do you weaken your argument with such statements? My DH has an MBA from a top school, is a top analyst at a top bank, and earns a pretty top salary. He is not only considered blindingly bright by colleagues, they seem to geniunely respect his nutty evangelical ethics as well.

In fact, about half of the attendees of my small church have a degree from Oxbridge or Durham or Imperial. Not a sheepish kind of crowd.

Interestingly, most did not become christians because they were singled out as a "goat child"(???), or brainwashed by their supermarket checkout parents. Most came from unchurched backgrounds, and came to Christ at university.

So maybe it's not just your local village school you should be concerned about, I'd be wary of Oxford and Cambridge as well.

Sorry, DC, but to say that Christian ethics are simplistic simply shows you have never made any study of them.