Soul survivor- DN's strange experience

[DalmationDots]

My sister and her niece came over yesterday, DN has recently come back from the Soul Survivor camp. I have heard of it before but thought it was a sort of music festival, big church services etc type event. I am not christian.

DN went with her youth group, she wasn't particuarly religious before - she went to the group to socialise. On Monday she spent the whole time telling me about how God cured people there of things like cancer, blindness and other disabilities. She truly believed this had happened. She said she went up to the front and committed in front of thousands her faith. She said she felt like she fainted and that was god taking over her life and body.

My sister later, away from DN, said she was a bit concerned how intense the experience was, and perhaps a bit brainwashing. Apparently the talks were also so intense she cried.

Both me and my sister have no problem whatsoever with DN being a Christian, she loved her time there and I'm glad she is such a sensible, lovely girl. I'm not trying to be anti-religion in any way, but I was just shocked this scale of event happens and how they look after the young people who could get really worked up about it all. Is DN's experience usual? How do they stop (accidental) brainwashing occurring and let the young people make up their own mind with such drastic and extreme worship?

Anyone got more experience? Thanks

Was the pressure exerted on you to join in the extra curricular activities done in a 'crazy and extreme' manner? Those were the words used.

Yes, you never saw the Head of 6th obviously!

So you'd be happy for your dc's to join a religion in the same manner that the op's DN did?

I don't know enough about the OP's DN's experience. Potentially yes, potentially no.

So there's a situation where you'd be happy for your dc's to be pressured into committing to something in a crazy and extreme manner?

It has not been established how crazy and extreme it has been yet.

I would not want my DC to be pressurised in to committing to anything but recognise pressure is quite subjective to the individual. One person's pressure is another's encouragement.

Ultimately I would question the supervision at any event, especially one which will be emotionally charged. I would also have to question whether it was suitable for my DC.

Easy to say in hindsight but in retrospect I would not want to jump to conclusions, if only out of respect for people's religious beliefs. I would, if I felt any child was detrimentally affected, investigate further with a view to tackling this issue.

I understand that you are worried about your DN. Specifically, what questions do you wish to pose to the organizers?

Yes, this started being concerned about my DN but my concern is more general, and I am intrigued how this kind of event doesn't seem to have much child protection or welfare consideration that would be required for other similar but non-religious events if the kinds of sensitive topics were being addressed i.e. your beliefs/life issues etc.
It has now turned into more of a debate on here and I feel like my inital concerns are a bit lost... Why is there not more regulations over this considering it involves children and religion. Children are vulnerable people. My DN is pretty resilient and tough, and was affected not badly but in ways which should have been avoided or action should IMO have happened in response to her emotions and fainting episode.

The children choose to go, and do so with their parent's consent but as my DSis found, the website says there is fun and worship.. it doesn't say there is brainwashing and pressure to commit to god. There was no outline of care available, nothing was advertised to DD over than christian counselling.

The type of care I am talking about may have been available, just not advertised. Maybe there are structures in place, but it seems they weren't strong enough to fulfill their duty of care.

My questions to whoever regulates such events and to SS themselves would be:

What structures do you have in place to care or respond when a child becomes extremely emotional, upset or overwhelmed?

Why do you feel the need to create an extremely hyped up atmosphere in order to worship, surely you recognise this can lead to children being pressured rather than able to explore your religion and, in their own time and comfort, make their own religious decisions?

Why do you choose to practice faith heeling at SS? Do you think it provides the correct image and message to young people who may easily be mislead considering it has been flawed my many notable people? Similarly, leaders providing explanations relating to God for a child fainting surely is dangerous as it neglects to put the child in touch with medical services to investigate the underlying cause of a physical reaction and ensure the child is OK.

How does SS incorporate Child Protection and Welfare considerations into its events? Does it abide by the same regulations and laws as other events and facilities for young people such as schools?

How do you prevent peer-pressure or hero worshiping of leaders leading to children feeling pressured, without being able to give their beliefs true thought and understanding -or through fear-, into committing to Jesus? Surely asking the children to come to the front combined loud cheers, music and a leader urging them will lead to children conforming simply due to the pressure?

I think you should put the questions to them and I would be interested to hear how they respond.

I will do, and I will let you know :)

Thanks.

Dalmation, most of your questions are excellent. But if I could propose an amendment to your third question:

"Faith Healing was witnessed at your event. What proof can you provide that cancer, blindness etc. were cured at your event?"

Try to be as specific as you can when putting your questions to the organizers. And (as much as possible) do not factor your own opinion into the questions. It really helps to not give too much away if you want your complaints/questions to be taken seriously. Let them answer and take it from there.

I too look forward to their replies.

I used to go to SS - both church in Herts and festival in Shepton... (I left due to personal circs, nothing dodgey with the chuch)

In answer to the above:
Anyone been to these festivals and seen if they have methods in place to prevent things getting out of hand, a child getting too emotional and distressed/overwhelmed or too much peer pressure/brainwashing? yes they do - there are a number of ushers, village (the camp site is broken into villages for ease of navigation) hosts and various other trained counsellors - literally hundreds of them... they're all checked, DBS checked, vetted and "trained" in how to deal with the young people they come across

I guess what I'm interested in is not whether it is all right or wrong (that is very much subject to opinion and personal religious beliefs) but whether the organisers recognise that the way they run their festival can lead to some children being highly emotionally vulnerable or, as my DN felt, believing they were having physical symptoms e.g. fainting?
Do they have adults who act as non-opinionated and neutral (not for- or against- God) counsellors to help the children who are new to all this or need to chat things through (and perhaps bringing down to reality a bit)? again - yes - there are many, many times stated during the week that explain the feelings. The SSites believe those feelings are of the Holy Spirit, in line with bible teaching and are not scary or to be worried about; they discuss it at the beginning of each and every worship time, meeting and seminar - they also tell the young people where to go if they're worried about the sensations they may feel and are equipped to take them aside and reassure them / talk through their thoughts with a child / young person (not in a brain washing way, but in a "if you don't like it.... don't worry" way

Do these organisers have points at which they draw a line and remember that these are young people, whose understanding and critical thinking is not as strong as an adult and who we have a duty of care for? yes - again - duty of care is IMMENSE @ Soul Survivor, both the church and camp; they take safeguarding very seriously and have social workers and various other trained minds and people both on the ground and behind the scenes to take care of the kids. Mostly, things are explained in real English, not decorated / bible bashing stuff, but explained - if Mike (the Pastor of SS church) or whoever is leading the meeting sees "movements" of the Spirit (noises / fainting sensations etc etc) happening they pause the music / talking and explain it - they tell you where to go if you're concerned and reassure that it isn't anything to worry about.

Most of all, the young people have great (somewhat soggy) fun. In all my years of going, I've never heard it definitely told that "we healed cancer / we made the blind see" - it may be worth writing to Mike P and letting him know your concerns and DN's reaction so the team can deal with it better next year...

oh and to add - SS have a child protection policy and take it very seriously, as does every other church worth it's salt... I'll see if I can find it online for you

ok they don't have the whole policy online (prob cos it's enormous) but I found this:

"Soul Survivor takes the welfare of children, young people and vulnerable adults very seriously. We have been working hard with the Churches? Child Protection Advisory Service (CCPAS) to revise all our policies and procedures over the past year to do our very best to ensure that our summer events are safe places for everyone. Part of these developments has been to introduce a new role of Event Safeguarding Advisor to work alongside the Event Leadership Team, the Connect Team and others such as the Christian Police Advisor (CPA)."

The Connect team are the specific team for welfare, alongside all the other members of staff around: "The Connect Team are our wonderful team of experienced social workers, counsellors and psychologists who are there to help in a confidential, caring and professional way with whatever issues are raised."

"movements of the spirit"

And that's where the rubber hits the road. Your movement of the spirit is someone else's self induced hysteria. The leaders won't deal with a child who gets in that state during their meeting in the same way any one of us would in normal day to day life. If a child at a gig/football match was displaying those symptoms it would be taken seriously and the child removed to a quieter place for any medical/emotional support and observation. No one would brush it off as spiritual or whatever because they know it would be deemed highly negligent.

I guess that's what's worrying. If a crying/fainting child is just the spirit working what on earth has to happen before a child is taken away for assistance?

headinhands For more detail I guess you'd just have to ask the leadership directly. They do have trained professionals attending the evident, counsellors, social workers and psychologists.

However you must realise that you, as a non believer, would probably dismiss any religious supernatural experience in terms of dysfunction, such as 'hysteria'.

Ultimately it seems you find Christianity as a Faith and many of its beliefs disturbing, which means you also are biased, as you have this point of view from the outset. I get the sense you would say of me 'Oh you believe that, you must be mad!'.

However we do, thankfully have religious freedom in this country.

Religious freedom should never override the rights of a child, or anyone for that matter to make their own decisions about religion without feeling pressured or frightened.

As an ex christian I've been to many of these types of worship meetings and know that even within Christian circles there are many who are concerned about the purposeful hyper intensity manufactured at these gatherings.

As for the 'ad hom' stuff, play the ball, not the player. Join in the discussion by all means but there's no need to speculate about what I may or may not think as it's neither here nor there and does nothing to assuage the op's concerns.

However you must realise that you, as a non believer, would probably dismiss any religious supernatural experience in terms of dysfunction, such as 'hysteria

I'm an atheist, and I don't find any religious supernatural experience in terms of dysfunction. Non-believers are not a homogenous mass who copy Dawkins' FWIW.

The OP said her DN said she 'felt faint', if she had actually fainted I would expect she would have received medical attention.

I do not know of any mainstream Christian Churches which preach people should refuse medical treatment. Christians do believe in God's healing power but this does not prohibit them from seeking or administering medical attention.

Sorry if the speculation offended you headinhands I will refrain from posting any such speculations in the future. I also believe children as well as all people generally have the right to make their own decisions about religion without pressure. But would you respect a child's religious belief if they spoke to you about it or would you assume they had been brainwashed?

SunshineBossaNova Pleased to hear it that you do not view all religious supernatural experiences in terms dysfunction. Yes, thinking about it, I do understand that non-believers are not a 'homogeneous mass'.

I'm glad to hear it dame. I've got a lot of believers in my life (friends, family) and would never write off their lived experiences. While I don't believe, I can see what benefits faith gives to people around me, and how some people use that faith to help others. :)

Hugely encouraged to read that Lewis. Major sigh of relief.

Head, such hysteria is frequently witnessed at concerts. Unless the child actually faints or presents themselves to the medical caregivers, no one does anything.

The band don't claim to be channeling any supernatural entity into the arena though? They're not saying things that make the concert goer feel like their world is being turned upside down or whatever the op's dn said.

As for a child telling me about their beliefs, it depends on if they ask my opinion on their chosen religion or not. If they did I would explain why I don't have a belief myself in an age appropriate manner.