Christian-Muslim-Jewish friendship thread

[niminypiminy]

I've had a talk with Crescentmoon about starting a thread where Christians and Muslims can hold out our hands in friendship to one another. I feel like we have so much to offer one another, and I certainly would love to learn more about Islam, and to understand the ways in which my Muslim sisters live out their faith. Would anybody else like to join?

I'm niminypiminy, and I'm a member of the Church of England, and work, and have two children. I realise that I'd don't even know if there is an equivalent in Islam for the different denominations (aside from Sunni and Shia, which I'm not at all confident I correctly understand the difference between). I'm going to be offline for a couple of days, so can't get back to reply, but if anybody would like to use this thread to come together as Christians trying to live out our faith, and to prayerfully and open-heartedly welcome and understand each other...

[sashh]

Those stories have happy endings but that's not always the case. It takes a lot of faith ad trust to try to put God first in everything.

Have you read 'the hiding place'?

It is a true story about two middle aged sisters who hid Jews in Holland, they are arrested and sent eventually to ravensbruk.

They have a hidden Bible and use it to discuss and teach others who are interested.

There is a passage in it that says something along the lines of give praise to God for everything (apologies no idea actual words chapter gospel or verse).

Betsie Ten Boom starts praying saying thank you for all the things they have, being alive, having a Bible etc.

Her sister Corrie prays with her until Betsie says "Thank you Lord for the fleas" at which point Corrie can't stand it and says 'we cannot be thankful for fleas'

There is a discussion as to what they have to be thankful for.

A few weeks later there is to be a search of the accommodation and they are scarred of the Bible being found. But one of the guards says to another, "Don't go in there, it's crawling with fleas".

Re the 10 commandments and Jesus, the 10 commandments in their full form are thought (by some including a few famous atheists) to be relevant at the time they were given but no longer needed.

I know a lot of Christians obey the 10 Commandments in their shortened form but in the original 'Do not kill' refers only to not killing other Jews.

The one about coveting your neighbour's wife also applies to your neighbour's slaves and other things.

Re Syria and Libya crescent I'm with you. If there was going to be help it should have been at the start.

After 2 years there is no longer 2 sides, they are many factions, people trying to push their own agenda.

This now looks like it is going to be the UK/America vs Russia but fighting on someone else's land. Which worked so well in Korea.

We should at the very lease to pouring aid into Jordan to support them with the refugees there.

On another note, Radio 4 had an interesting programme on the differences between Sunni and Shia Islam.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00y6p65

[niminypiminy]

Fascinating posts Crescentmoon and everyone else! I am learning so much. It's lovely to see such generosity. (Haven't been around very much because too much going on in RL but have been reading.)

[Italiangreyhound]

sashh Corrie Ten Boom's book is very moving, I am not sure I have read it all but I have read bits of it. At the end there is a bit where one of the sisters meets one of the guards. He has given his life to God and he extends a hand to shake her hand. She is rivited to the spot and feels she cannot forgive him....

"?It was at a church service in Munich that I saw him, the former SS man who had stood guard at the shower
room door in the processing centre at Ravensbruck. He was the first of our actual jailers that I had seen since
that time. And suddenly it was all there ? the roomful of mocking men, the heaps of clothing, Betsie?s painblanched
face.
He came up to me as the church was emptying, beaming and bowing. ?How grateful I am for your message
Fräulein?, he said ?To think that, as you say, He has washed my sins away!?
His hand was thrust out to shake mine. And I, who had preached so often to the people in Bloemendaal the
need to forgive, kept my hand at my side.
Even as the angry, vengeful thoughts boiled through me, I saw the sin of them. Jesus Christ had died for this
man; was I going to ask for more? Lord Jesus, I prayed, forgive me and help me to forgive him.

I tried to smile, I struggled to raise my hand. I could not. I felt nothing, not the slightest spark of warmth or
charity. And so again I breathed a silent prayer. Jesus, I cannot forgive him. Give me Your Forgiveness.
As I took his hand the most incredible thing happened. From my shoulder along my arm and through my
hand a current seemed to pass from me to him, while into my heart sprang a love for this stranger that almost
overwhelmed me.
And so I discovered that it is not on our forgiveness any more than on our goodness that the world?s healing
hinges, but on His. When He tells us to love our enemies, He gives, along with the command, the love itself.?"

Yes, Crescent Syria. It is heart breaking...today I listened to Radio 4's Midweek. One of the guests was Paul Conroy (former soldier turned photojournalist) who was with war correspondent Marie Colvin when she was killed in Syria in 2012. The programme info says "He survived five terrifying days with serious wounds sustained during the shelling, and his eventual escape was via a tunnel under the city. His book Under the Wire - Marie Colvin's Final Assignment is published by Quercus." What was so sad was that he said how Marie had died and he had put his life on the line and now no one was doing anything about it.It was just very sad to think of the masses of people who have been killed and yet very sadly the rest of the world seems to be standing by. I am not even sure what is for the best since there have been so many times when the 'west' has interviened in things. I wonder what the rest of the 'Arab' world feels about this disaster on their doorstep. .

[Italiangreyhound]

I mean the 'west' has interveined and it has gone badly!

[Italiangreyhound]

It's also impossibly complicated isn't it, which is one reason why the peaceful protests were so great before in Tunisia, Egypt etc but I think with Iraq and Afganisistan going so badly it is very hard to know what to do. But totally agree to do nothing is not an option. Not sure why Russia is against intervntion, or have I got that wrong?

[cloutiedumpling]

This is a great thread. Thank you for your posts Crescent. It must take quite a long time to type them but they are really interesting. It is fascinating to see how similar but different things are (I'm from a Christian background) . I'm glad this thread hasn't descended into mud slinging like so many other threads do.

[superbagpuss]

Christians as far as I have been taught see Abraham as the father of all
we remember his faith in that he was told to sacrifice his son Issac until the last moment when he sacrificed a ram
he also had an older son who is important - name escapes me sorry

his blood line goes to king David - of David and Goliath - and to Joseph who is Jesus step dad

[stressedHEmum]

crescent, your posts are fascinating. Thank you.

Sorry, I don't have time to post, I'm gettng ready to go away tomorrow for DS1's graduation, so I will be away all week.

Abraham is the father of all our faiths. He is revered for his faith and commitment to God in the face of insurmountable odds. He is an example to Christians in trusting God's promises and relying on Him - Abram left everything he knew behind and moved to a completely new land at God's bidding and trusted Him to lead him without knowing where he was going or what to expect.

he had 2 sons - Isaac, the child of God's promise and Ishmael, from whom, I believe Muslims are descended? God protected Hagar and Ishmael in the desert and secured him a place of his own. Through Isaac, Abraham became the father of nations and a direct ancestor of Jesus.

Will read through the thread again and post actual stuff when I come back from St. Andrews.

Hope everyone has a peaceful and joyous week.

[madhairday]

This is such a lovely thread. I lost it off my list but have rediscovered it, and so pleased. crescent your posts are fascinating, thanks so much for taking the time to write them. I've got a feeling I'll learn loads from this thread - already have!

Stressed and Italian - your view on predestination/freewill sound remarkably similar to mine ;)

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Hi, I know I've met many of you before on other threads. I like the "daily gratitudes" one for example, which also has those of different faiths - sharing simple gratitudes and thankfulness. I've also seen folks on the christian prayer threads - and other discussions in this corner of MN !

I'm a Quaker, so from the christian tradition, but very liberal and "wide, wide as the ocean !" Interested in seeking wisdom: increasing knowledge, understanding and tolerance: and pursuing peace.

So, by way of marking my place here -
Peace to you all x

[superbagpuss]

cresentmoon thank you for filling in the gaps in my knowledge
Christians don't get taught much about Ishmael - sorry

[superbagpuss]

yes they are real people that had amazing things happen to them and really spoke to God in whatever form He took. I guess that's a faith thing.

[niminypiminy]

Hello to all, and peace be with you.

I've just realised that Ramadan is starting soon, and I was thinking that I would really like to find a way to keep that time with my Muslim sisters, and that there might be a way to do it on this thread. What do you think? Even if it is just checking in once a day to say that I am praying with you?

[twistyfeet]

Ramadan mubarak to all the muslim sisters as ramadan starts.

[niminypiminy]

My prayers are with you at this holy time

[Moominsarehippos]

I'm just hopping in before the school run.

One Q I have for muslims (that I can't ask some of my relies without looking as ass!). I know 'born again' muslims, not arab-speaking, who now say words and phrases in arabic in everyday speech, so the equivalent of 'God willing', 'thanks to God' etc. Christians don't have a similar thing in Latin (that I can think of). I suppose I find it strange to hear folks with broad british accents throwing arabic phrases into everyday conversations with me. Why in arabic?

Oh and I need some good questions for the nursery children to ask the Vicar. They come up with some corkers, but I do 'feed' some of my own in (as they are things I've always wanted to ask - now I know what happened to the cavemens' souls!).

Good luck for all those fasting. It must be difficult when it is so hot and sunny (one relative won't drink either). As a non muslim - should we comment/ask about someone fasting? On the last day, would it be appropriate to give a wee gift or some food for the last post-fast meal?