Atheists - is there anything about faith that appeals to you, would you like to believe?

[Italiangreyhound]

Hi, I've been reading a few threads and I've heard atheists say stuff in the past about belief in God. Stuff like they don't believe in God but they would like to or they can see why it would maybe give peace or would be nice etc. I am just curious how atheists feel a bout this and if they want to talk about it?

I am a Christian, I hope I am an open and tolerant person and I would not want to cause offence. I am just curious, as we come into Easter if anyone wants to chat about this.

If not, may I wish you a peaceful and happy Easter, even if all it means to you is some chocolate eggs.

Women are on completely equal footing with men in every bit of Christian church everywhere seeker.Unless you call gender differences "inequality". We can't help that.

Good post pianomama but I just think that people here don't see leadership the same way so "equal footing" means something different to different people.

Green- it just always seems to me that wherever a church says something like "women are equal but different" or talk about different types of leadership, the bits of leadership that actually mean any sort of decision making, or power or ability to change anything always by some mysterious means end up being in the sort of leadership best suited to men. While the sort of leadership that manages jumble sales, chooses flowers and organises the parish magazine turns out to be sort of leadership women are good at......

"Women are on completely equal footing with men in every bit of Christian church everywhere seeker.Unless you call gender differences "inequality". We can't help that."

I don't understand.

seeker, one of the first things I said on this thread was that I was a Bible study leader, meaning that on a Monday morning I led the womens bible study. A massive and onerous commitment, trying to interpret and make sense of Bible passages with the help of books in a way that was relevant and meaningful to the women in my group. Why the women's, well I could have been a house group leader but I didn't have time and with family commitments it was hard to get out in the evenings so I did the women's bible study group. Which was a massive massive responsibility and theres no greater privilege than opening up the Bible to others, it requires thought and prayer and is a great responsibility.

Your responses on this thread have mentioned flower arranging twice. I never did any flower arranging. Maybe to you that is all that women in church are good for.

This thread reminds me of conversations women have defending feminism and they get told "get back in your kitchen dear and make me a nice cup of tea and don't bother your pretty little head love.". Don't act like I don't know you are using the most sarcastic and chauvinistic attitude when mentioning "flower arranging".

The irony of all this is delicious.

I was exaggerating for emphasis.

It sounds as if you get great satisfaction from your role.

Are there any women in the hierarchy in your church? If significant changes or decisions have to be made, are there any women in the committees or whatever that make them?

I think seeker there are no men or women in after life. Here on Earth we are one or another.
Christian Church does not make women any less equal then men in fact it teaches that we are all equal.

But you still need to be a man to be a bishop.

yes there were four leaders in my church, one woman and three men. Only one of the four was married with kids, the rest were single.

I did enjoy my role, sadly I moved away and don't do it any more due to work commitments.

It just strikes me as very odd that if God exists then why would he/she/it create women with talents and abilities then explicitly prevent them from using them.

What you end up with is a society that is ruled, governed and led by members who aren't necessarily the best suited to do so but are there simply because their genitals aren't on the approved list.

It is, sadly, the case that the Christian churches of today are behind the rest of society in matters of equality, and according to each human being the dignity that she or he deserves. (In general - not that I pretend to know about all Christian churches)
But don't forget that the notion of this human value comes straight out of Christianity, in this bit of the world. You can be atheist and pro-human (of course) but the way we take the value of people for granted (or at least those of us who do) - regardless of sex, age, nationality, income, position in society - would never have happened had it not been preached by churches.
I am puzzled about how it happened that secular society overtook Christianity in this. And saddened.

yes, odd, old fashioned, politically incorrect, etc.

You could be anyone to be a part of Christian Church there are no distinctions (well not many). In Greek Orthodox Church only little boys are being taking into the altar when they are getting baptized, women are not allowed there at all.
And I don't think there are any female priests either. However it doesn't come across as inequality - more like role separation.

But why is it that there is the greater role and the lesser role?

Why should the 'honour' of being taken to the alter be only afforded to one gender?

I read recently about someone who had started a church for non-religious people. It sounded right up my street.

I love the community aspect of a church, with everyone looking out for each other, and with the vicar tending his flock etc etc. I also love going to church services, and enjoy the singing and general feeling of "togetherness".

However, the rational side of me can't handle the "faith" bit. I need facts and evidence that there IS a god, and that's the rub. People of faith just have faith that there is a god, they don't need evidence.

I would describe myself as being from a Christian background, and maybe, at times even as being a Christian (as I believe there was a man called Jesus Christ who walked the earth). However, I cannot believe that the world was created by God, that Jesus fed 5000 people with a few fish and a bit of bread, etc.

I don't know a lot about other religions, but suspect I would feel the same way about the community aspect, and also the faith aspect, whatever the religion.

Both my DDs went to a C of E school (because it was the best in the area at the time, not because it's C of E). However, they have both emerged into their teens as confirmed atheists - so accusations of indoctrination by religious schools are demonstrably not true!

Only the sense of community really. My Christian friends seem to have this instant "just add water" group of friends who will all do favours for each other because they are in the church.

Plus they have an on-tap calendar of social events - quizzes, outings, etc. - which we occasionally go to as well as they don't always have a religious flavour.

And if they need professional services there is usually a builder, decorator, accountant etc. from within the church willing to give them a decent rate. Oh, and stuff like children's clothes when they were little - always some going begging.

I'd love to have this instant community, and joining a church would be the easiest way to get it. But I just could not ever do all the God stuff, and there doesn't seem to be any comparable secular alternative.

Nope. No more than I want to be a Justin Bieber fan, a stamp collector or involved in a longterm monogamous relationship. If it floats your boat, fine. It's just not something I have any interest in.

Oh, DadOnIce: there are quite a few hobbies which can give you that community cohesion. I get mine from my BDSM mate and my morris dancing team. YMMV but there is bound to be some sort of hobby/interest with a social aspect you could take up.

Are there any bits of the Christian church where women are on a completely equal footing with men

Most churches I know this is the case, tbh. The whole women bishop thing can be a red herring because the great majority voted for, the whole thing was based on technicalities rather than the bigger issue.

I know plenty of superb women in church leadership, plenty high up in decision making etc etc. I can't imagine it another way. Then again, I've always seen the bible as supporting women as equal and read it with a feminist lens. Paul a misogynist? Sod that for a game of soldiers.

I've never arranged a flower in my life

Interesting thread.

:) Actually my very dear friend and DS's godfather makes really good arrangements with flowers. I am quite useless. But not bitter..

"However it doesn't come across as inequality - more like role separation."

Yep. Roles separated into important ones and less important ones. Guess which one the women get?

seeker - this is your pride talking. Accept you are a woman :). Men may be bishops but they cant have babies.

Please tell me you're joking........please.....

Greencoloropack - If God really does condemn anyone at all to eternity in hell then he is not worthy of worship I am afraid.

I believe in a God who is much better than that, much more loving than that, much less petty than that, much more perfect than that. The good news is even better!

I think (although I am trying to see it in the bible and it is hard to see it through the lens of writing that was done so long after the events) that Jesus was able to show people something of this love which is why he inspired people. But I don't know.

Seeker: Nah, s/he won't be joking. S/he is either a man who thinks that women are 'special' ie destined to be servants, or a woman who can't cope with the cognitive dissonance of knowing she belongs to an organisation that considers her a couple of steps above the status of domestic animal.