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Original poster

Atheists - is there anything about faith that appeals to you, would you like to believe?

410 replies

Italiangreyhound · 27/03/2013 10:51

Hi, I've been reading a few threads and I've heard atheists say stuff in the past about belief in God. Stuff like they don't believe in God but they would like to or they can see why it would maybe give peace or would be nice etc. I am just curious how atheists feel a bout this and if they want to talk about it?

I am a Christian, I hope I am an open and tolerant person and I would not want to cause offence. I am just curious, as we come into Easter if anyone wants to chat about this.

If not, may I wish you a peaceful and happy Easter, even if all it means to you is some chocolate eggs.

OP posts:
MechanicalTheatre · 02/04/2013 15:10

Ellie, Einstein didn't believe in God.

seeker, like you, when faced with indisputable evidence, then I would believe. And would have no problem with it. I mean, it would blow my mind if there was a God, but then the universe blows my mind every day. I find the idea that we could have evolved from gloop into these walking, talking, thinking, feeling beings who put such value on things that don't matter at all completely bonkers. Far more bonkers than the idea of a big man in the sky. If anything, the God thing is more believable than the evolution thing, because seriously, wtf?

seeker · 02/04/2013 15:16

It really is completely impossible to have any sort of conversation with you, green, isn't it? You won't answer direct questions, you won't believe what people say about themselves......just bizarre!

greencolorpack · 02/04/2013 15:21

In the Bible Jesus Christ met many people and he did his miracles. Some of the people who saw his miracles would have been the ones who wanted him crucified. Some of them accused him of "having a demon.". Even when he was patently doing the will of God.

So even if you saw "indisputable evidence", if you didn't want to believe it you wouldn't. Simple as that.

Mechanicaltheatre I agree about the amazing world we live in. For me the miracle of childbirth is mindblowing, even if it can be explained rationally.

greencolorpack · 02/04/2013 15:22

Seeker, I have to frame what people believe through the prism of being a Christian much as you have to through your beliefs. I don't understand why that is hard for you to understand.

seeker · 02/04/2013 15:28

So "seeing something through the prism of being a Christian" means saying "you have said this thing about yourself, but you are not telling the truth"?

I have no idea what you mean by your references to Jesus' miracles.

greencolorpack · 02/04/2013 15:31

You are telling the truth but I interpret your words as per Christian thinking. Is what I did any worse than demanding someone explain their stance on secularism even though they didn't use that word?

Personally I find it really interesting to talk to people who have a different ideological outlook to mine, it's just fascinating. I'm not at all threatened that people don't see things the way I do. Can you say the same?

MrsHoarder · 02/04/2013 15:35

green I would never wish that someone feels the need for God, because that usually only happens after a painful life experience which is not something to wish on anyone.

As for God appearing in the sky, yes if He did that I would obviously believe in Him. Now, would you change to Hinduism if Svayam Bhagavan appeared or would you remain a Christian against evidence that another religion is "right"?

seeker · 02/04/2013 15:47

I said that if I was presented with incontrovertible proof of god's existence, I would cheerfully admit that I have been wrong.

You told me that I wouldn't. How is that interpreting my words per Chriwtiqn thinking?

And I asked you to explain your stance on secularism because you brought up the idea! You were the first person on this thread to mention it.

greencolorpack · 02/04/2013 15:53

Seeker, Saying the papers are sneery and secular is not bringing up secularism.

I believe you are too wedded to the concept of winning an argument to be honest about what might happen when faced with God. I say that based on how you come across as a poster. Maybe I am wrong about that but I doubt it. For you being rational is everything. Being able to put down irrational Christians makes you feel good about yourself. I am glad to provide that service to you.

MrsH maybe I would. I don't know, I will let you know when it happens.

seeker · 02/04/2013 16:03

"Being able to put down irrational Christians makes you feel good about yourself. I am glad to provide that service to you."

What an extraordinarily offensive thing to say. One of the most offensive things anyone has ever said to me. I would actually quite like you to reconsider and apologise.

MrsHoarder · 02/04/2013 16:26

Green this thread was opened to promote discussion between athesists and Christians. Throughout it you have been critical of atheists and seemed to be looking to start a bunfight and ignoring reasonable questions. It isn't reasonable too tell people weep came in a genuine spirit of discussion that they are closed-minded just because they don't have the same beliefs as you.

(Remembers why I avoid faith discussions)

MrsHoarder · 02/04/2013 16:28

And why can't we let you know if God appearing quips change our views when it happens?

greencolorpack · 02/04/2013 16:37

mrsH sorry if you've given up the discussion I have been thinking about your words all day... Interesting to think that if I wish for someone to need God then it means I am wishing them ill to befall because that is how people find faith. It's interesting that you say that. It's not really true of my life, I mean I wasnt dramatically unhappy or bereft when I perceived my need of God. And it might not be true of others but it does come into it. If you are at your lowest ebb that might well be the point where you reach out for a higher power greater than yourself. That isn't happening on this thread (as far as I know, but then who knows what personal circumstances draw people to this thread on a message board). I only posted it because that is how I came to faith. Possibly CS Lewis came to faith through reasoned argument but I bet he also had other factors at play in his life.

And I don't wish anyone ill, finding God is the best experience of your life and the most important as it concerns where you spend eternity (ie a very long time) so its more important than anything else you might be doing with your life.

seeker · 02/04/2013 16:42

So you are standing by your extraordinarily offensive comment to me? You are not even going to offer me the courtesy of further explanation?

greencolorpack · 02/04/2013 16:51

seeker what is the point? You don't like anything I say ever. It's wearing to deal with. How about you just ignore me?

seeker · 02/04/2013 16:57

That is not true. And even if it was, why does it give you the right to be offensive?

EllieArroway · 02/04/2013 16:58

Ellie, Einstein didn't believe in God

Er yes - I know. That is a list of "evidences" that tend to be produced by Christians to "prove" their God. My refutation to that would be that no, Einstein didn't believe in God.

I can refute all of that list. That's the point!

monsterchild · 02/04/2013 17:06

Green, now you're getting all smug and prideful, knowing what other people would do in a given situation.

And actually, studying other religions is what made me not able to believe in your god, or at least, not give your god more weight than any other god out there.

greencolorpack · 02/04/2013 17:06

What gives you the right to keep goading away needling at me the same question over and over about something I wasn't even posting about? Or telling me what I believe in an attempt to goad me into answering? And then I did answer, I came up with a reason to not like the media re toddlers and the church targeting them, I don't remember you thanking me for taking the time to research that on Google. No you just posted like I hadn't said anything. Now come come let's not derail the thread with white noise, let's shake hands and agree to disagree. We will never agree on anything and neither of us like being offended.

EllieArroway · 02/04/2013 17:11

Ellie doesn't your post above prove what I said above that nobody can be argued into the kingdom of God? What it proves is that people don't use critical thinking to arrive at their beliefs. They may think about them - but there's nothing critical in their thinking. Are you ready to concede the point, then? It was YOU who challenged me on this.

You should thank the God you don't believe in that he gave you free will to reject him as much as you like. You would not be happy if God suddenly appeared in the sky ridding the world of all doubt. You wouldn't like that. You should be glad you have the choice to reject Him and he respects your free will

I'm not going to address any remarks, thanks or otherwise, to something I don't believe exists. How peculiar that you think I should.

Free will? Love me or you can't come into my magic kingdom. Or worse, suffer an eternity in Hell. This is leaving aside the obvious fact that if your omniscient God exists, free will is impossible.

You would not be happy if God suddenly appeared in the sky ridding the world of all doubt. You wouldn't like that. You should be glad you have the choice to reject Him and he respects your free will Actually, I'd be fascinated if such a thing happened. I don't hate your God, and I haven't "rejected" him anymore than you hate & reject the Easter Bunny. I don't believe it exists. Have you fully grasped that?

If evidence of a compelling kind were presented for your God, I'd believe it. Whether I'd worship or love it is another matter (very unlikely if it turns out to be Yahweh) - but I'd believe it. I'm an honest, curious person - I want to know what's TRUE, regardless of my personal feelings.

seeker · 02/04/2013 17:15

I responded to your post about targeting two year olds (actually linking to the article) at 18.41 yesterday. You ignored my response. You said there were "certain secular things" you didn't like, but refused to say what they are.

And now you have publicly said an incredibly offensive thing to me. And now you're saying let's agree to disagree! Well, no.

greencolorpack · 02/04/2013 17:17

mrsH. I ignore "reasonable" questions precisely because I am seeking to avoid a bunfight. Maybe the questions are reasonable but they require far too much explanation to answer than I have the time for, ie if I say "I believe this" I think there are many people on the thread who read what I say and hear "I want to run the world and this is what I would do if I was running the world" and then argue with me like I was a politician when I am not a politician. I'm just a person with an opinion, just like the next person. I can't stand being treated like I am a dictator dictating terms hence I ignore reasonable questions about secularism.

EllieArroway · 02/04/2013 17:20

Nothing you say will stop me thinking that atheism is a belief stance and therefore is as irrational as any religion you like

You're just wrong then. I could try to explain it, but at this stage you've closed your ears haven't you?

EllieArroway · 02/04/2013 17:24

No Seeker you wouldn't! You would be very annoyed. You like not believing. You like being an atheist, a lot of your pride and identity are tied up in your convictions

That is quite offensive, you know. You are very particular that we don't all brand you as something you're not, and then in a fit of pique you say that to someone you've never met?

greencolorpack · 02/04/2013 17:27

It's your opinion. Everyone believes something, there's no such thing as a belief vacuum. Perhaps someone in a coma or dead is without beliefs. But all us living breathing types believe something and for a whole host of reasons, some rational, some irrational.

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