Atheists - is there anything about faith that appeals to you, would you like to believe?

[Italiangreyhound]

Hi, I've been reading a few threads and I've heard atheists say stuff in the past about belief in God. Stuff like they don't believe in God but they would like to or they can see why it would maybe give peace or would be nice etc. I am just curious how atheists feel a bout this and if they want to talk about it?

I am a Christian, I hope I am an open and tolerant person and I would not want to cause offence. I am just curious, as we come into Easter if anyone wants to chat about this.

If not, may I wish you a peaceful and happy Easter, even if all it means to you is some chocolate eggs.

Nettee are you going to start your own thread about why Jesus is needed in the church. AS per your post at Wed 27-Mar-13 15:09:03 ??

I thought your comments were very interesting and I am sure that lots of people would post. I have only just read you post of

Slug I followed your link and listened,

Chilling stuff but it is not real, it is a spoof.

www.cautionchurchahead.com/2010/01/mrs-whitford-witnesses.html

Sorry Nette cut myself off there! only just read your interesting comment.

I would find it comforting to believe in a greater being and purpose

I would find it comforting to believe that when my loved ones die I will see them again. To not actally belive this can make can make me despair.

I was raised a Catholic and when I was a teen was an active Christian....but I was always plagued by serious doubts. There came a point where I had to admit I just didn't believe. That is not always an easy truth for me.

I would like to think that karma exists. What goes around, comes around.

monsterchild

Not by me.

I dream of winning the lottery and setting up a community kitchen where people can learn to cook (if they can't already) and either take food home to their families or sit at a table and eat.

MyShoofly did you think of looking for a different belief set when you left Catholicism? Just curious.

I am an athiest. My dd is in reception and very much believes in God and I am happy to support her as much as I am able. She goes to Church with my friend as often as possible and when she talks to me about God and Jesus I listen and don't disregard what she is saying. I feel everyone has the right to believe if they choose to.

I probably use religious morals and beliefs because they make sense, being kind to people and showing respect is something I feel people should do and I try to do no matter what.

I cannot say I believe in an after life because I don't. At most I believe when we are alive we create our own heaven or hell depending on how we act. In the long term I know we are all energy and energy never dissapear's (sp) it just changes although to what once we die I don't pretend to know.

Sommink you sound really lovely and supportive of your daughter.

I too was brought up catholic and went to a convent school. A very religious family, my aunt was a nun.

I just don't believe in a god, I kind of think there may be a 'superior' being that was here at some point but it was an alien... Not a god.

I miss the community and think that we have lost / are losing the christian morals and values which are fundamental to society and underpin a lot of our laws. I think that religions allow us to 'judge' and keep a moral high ground thereby dictating acceptable behaviour in society, if that makes sense. I think we are losing this and that is bad.

So the Christian rules we live by are important but then I also find religion a bit of a joke. I mean look at how rich the rc church is... Surely they should be distributing their wealth to the poor, that is the Christianity that they preach, no? To me the church takes but gives very little back. Individual parishes may give but the church itself, as in Rome, does nothing but hoard their riches. Not very christian.

Wouldn't choose another religion though as I think that if you are going to base your life on a book you should not pick and choose the bits you agree with and oh.. there's a couple of things in the bible that seem ... Dodgy.

Hmm. What will you do if she heads in the direction of one of the arsehole cults when she gets a bit bigger eg comes home talking less about Baby Jesus and more about how God Hates Fags? Sure, not all the myth peddlers are racist, misogynistic, homophobic fucktards, but some of them are, and some people take those aspects of their faith more seriously than the hymn-singing and charitable donations. How much 'respect' does a superstition merit when it involves discrimination and obnoxiousness?

Italian

I think there's something profoundly comforting in the general idea that death is not the end, that all and any suffering has a "reason" and will come good in the end. It's because the thought is so comforting that religion persists. It's what people want to believe so they find a way to make it seem possible.

I've racked my brains and tried to think of whether there's any part of "faith" that appeals to me and I'm afraid that there just isn't.

If you're talking about faith specifically then not only do I find that unappealing, I find it immoral as a concept. It's asking people to stop reasoning and just believe. This is bad enough - but then it's held up as some kind of virtue, when it's anything but. There's nothing virtuous about credulousness and gullibility.

But if you actually mean "religion" (yours specifically), well I have fond memories of being at boarding school, sitting through interminable sermons on Sundays (although the curate was good looking, so it wasn't all bad) and us all rushing back en masse for our Sunday lunch. I have such fond memories of this that I almost regret that my son didn't have the same experience.

Some of the hymns are quite nice too. I quite often sing "Dear Lord and Father of Mankind" when there's no one around to hear. And, of course, many churches are lovely buildings, steeped in history.

But no - this is all eclipsed for me by the fact that the religion that produced this loveliness has, at it's very heart, the appalling assertion that we're all born sinners and can only atone for these sins by being grateful for an unnecessary blood sacrifice 2000 years ago.

No amount of misty eyed "respect for faith" can get me over this, I'm afraid.

Ellie, faith does not mean stopping using your mind. You can believe in God and still think very critically about things. In fact because ideologically you are in a minority in your beliefs, you are forced to think about how to respond to certain secular beliefs and concepts a lot more than someone at home in the secular world. It's a bit like how a Guardian reader might notice all the bias and propaganda and spin when reading the Daily Mail but she won't notice it in the Guardian because she agrees with the Guardians politics.

(This is a good example for me because I am left leaning and like the Guardian for politics but the way it covers religion is very sneery and secular and so I disagree with pretty much everything they say when covering religious stories.)

Is that really true, though green.....really?

Faith is belief without reason and/or evidence..... or even in the face of contrary evidence. That is what it means. And most honest Christians agree that there is no evidence for their God, which is why "faith" is so important.

When we think critically we evaluate evidence and we use reason. So, arriving at a conclusion based on "faith" is the very, very opposite of critical thinking, I'm afraid.

I think many people assume that because they've spent a lot of time thinking about the issue this equals "critical thinking". It doesn't - it's just thinking.

Faith is the fall back position when you want to carry on believing something that critical thinking does not support.

What's wrong with secularism, by the way? Do you think your religion has the right to be treated as "special" over every other and none? Because that's the alternative to secularism - which wants all religions and none to be treated equally in the eyes of the state.

I truly think most religious people don't really understand what secularism is - they think it's the political wing of atheism or something. Nope :)

Nothing wrong with secularism. Sigh.

Stop sighing at me please and be clearer if you wish to be understood. You said:

.....religion is very sneery and secular

Strongly implying that there's something wrong with secularism. Perhaps don't couple it with sneery if you think there's nothing wrong with it, eh?

There is something wrong with secularism from my point of view, which is a Christian. Other points of view are available. I am not trying to run the world, I do not want to tell other people how to live, I was making the point that to be a believer involves living in a world where people disagree with your morals, etc on a regular basis and you have to learn to live in that world which involves using your brain. You can't just switch off and let God do the thinking because the Bble is a 2000 and older year old document and you have to figure out how it applies to the modern world.

Can people please stop assuming I am a mighty Christian dictator trying to be power hungry and make everyone agree with me. I am posting from a Christian point of view... Relevant to the thread. I am not saying "Bow down before me secular minions for I am right about everything!". Lol

But loads of Christians also believe in secularism. A secular society is one where nobody gets special treatment because of their faith- but equally are free to practice their faith as they see fit. I honestly don't see how anyone except those who wish to impose their faith on others could possibly object....

Can people please stop assuming I am a mighty Christian dictator trying to be power hungry and make everyone agree with me

Honestly, I'm not. Promise. I'm trying to clear up a very, very common misconception about what secularism is. It is seen, wrongly, as the political wing of atheism. It has nothing to do with atheism - lots and lots and lots of Christians (and Muslims) are secularists. It's about equality.

And yes, I agree with seeker - anyone who has a problem with secularism must, by definition, think their religion deserves a special place in our society, since that's the only alternative to it.

I don't think you actually think that, do you? Which implies that you've misunderstood what secularism is. And I'm not even criticising you for that - it's an amazingly common misunderstanding.

I have spent most of my adult life envying those on either side of the faith/atheism divide if they are happy and at peace with their choice.

I think the hardest thing to live with is agnosticism. Those with faith often say belief and doubt live side by side - that it is part of the human condition and not really an obstacle to commitment. I presume atheists are not immune to doubt either but for me it just feels a bit dishonest to commit to either side when I can believe and doubt ten times in the same day - so here I am stuck on the fence!

I have to say though, it takes a stronger person than me to sit at the bedside of a dangerously ill child, or care for a parent with early-onset dementia and not desperately hope that there is a higher power and some purpose behind it all.

I think most of us just want to gain a sense of peace/equilibrium through our beliefs and I think it seems possible with both faith and non-belief but I would be interested to know how others on the fence make peace with uncertainty - I know I really struggle.

Having reread the thread I never said I hated "secularism" I said the papers are sneery and secular. Which goes against my beliefs as a Christian. I stand by my right not to be saying anything about secularism either way.

Having reread the thread I never said I hated "secularism" I said the papers are sneery and secular. Which goes against my beliefs as a Christian

I can't see where I suggested that you did say that . And I haven't read the whole thread, I am only addressing the remarks you made to me.

Secularity goes against your beliefs as a Christian? OK. Since secularity promotes equality by proposing a state that does not favour any one religion over another, then your Christian belief is that the government of us ALL should be partial to Christianity?

And then you get cross when you think we're saying that you want to impose your beliefs on us? Well, apparently, you do!

I don't actually think you do - and I still think you don't really get what secularity really means. But my attempts at explaining have clearly failed. Shame. Would be nice to try and clear that one up at least.

don't you see that linking sneery and secular in the sentence like that makes it look like you think negatively about secularism? You are saying something strong by linking the two.

For those who disagree about secularism you should try living in a theocracy where the main religion isn't yours for a while. I'm guessing you might not feel the same way.