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Original poster

Atheists on belief threads. Why?

410 replies

DioneTheDiabolist · 21/03/2013 22:55

While there are sometimes interesting threads where atheists and believers discuss and debate religion, it seems to me that increasingly atheists only come onto threads here to poopoo or disrespect the beliefs of others.

Am I right about this and if not then what is the reasoning behind the posts where atheists call the beliefs of others rubbish etc?

OP posts:
tuffie · 22/03/2013 19:52

Just off to church for an uplifting Lent service.
Then out to the wine bar for a drink with some of my lovely atheist friends with whom I can have a rational discussion on all subjects including my faith if it comes up. No mention of lizards or teapots - unless we are discussing nature or favourite beverages.
I respect them, they respect me, just as it should be. Night all.

DadOnIce · 22/03/2013 19:55

OK, serious question for the Christians on here. You've seen what's happened to other belief systems in the past. In general, nobody believes in the Roman gods, the Greek gods, the Egyptian gods, the Viking gods, etc. any more. But they did, very passionately and very powerfully, to the point where they ruled their lives and thoughts and it would just have seemed bizarre not to. Do you not ever consider this a lesson from history, and think it likely that the three most currently fashionable biggie monotheist belief systems will go the same way? In two thousand years, do you think there will be anyone left who actually believes in the Christian god, or will it be seen as an interesting piece of mythology and a cultural phenomenon like Zeus, Thor, etc?

greencolorpack · 22/03/2013 20:03

DadonIce, Christianity has lasted two thousand years because it works. It has the transforming and radical power to change people's lives. It has done for generations so it's highly unlikely to die out. Also Christians have a responsibility to try to raise their children in the faith and so it doesn't die out.

It's not about how passionately or powerfully you believe, it's about what you put your faith in. Maybe the Egyptians saw through their tinpot Gods cos those gods had no power to answer prayer, no power to do anything much at all. Whereas my God is an awesome God.

DadOnIce · 22/03/2013 20:07

OK, thanks. But a lot of that sounds like waffle to me, and a lot of it would have applied to previous religions too. Ancient cultures believed in their gods just as strongly as you believe in yours. We have no reason to think otherwise.

Thistledew · 22/03/2013 20:09

walter - genuine question - the Christians who do believe that god tells them that homosexuality is wrong or that women are inferior do hold those beliefs sincerely. Do you believe that they believe in a different god to you? Or that they don't have a genuine belief in god? If the latter, do you believe that those people would be seen by god as the same as non-believers, or would he accept them as Christians?

And can anyone tell me if they have ever met anyone who believes in a god, but disagrees with their god's morality (eg believes that their god hates gays, but themselves have no problem with them)? Or does everyone believe that their own view of morality perfectly matches the one their god promotes?

DadOnIce · 22/03/2013 20:09

Could you give an example of how the Christian god has "answered prayer", and I mean one which demonstrates that it was actually him doing it and not just some piece of randomness, a coincidence, or something which would have happened anyway? Then could you give an example of something you prayed for which did not come true, and speculate as to why one did and the other didn't? Thanking you in anticipation.

specialsubject · 22/03/2013 20:12

to paraphrase someone: beliefs do not deserve respect. I think your belief in any supernatural being is obviously pure fantasy. BUT believers deserve respect; if you want to pray, believe, sing songs, dress up, reenact things then go ahead.

AS LONG AS it does not hurt or restrict anyone else. Including your children. I think that attending religious services should be only for adults, same as voting and other decisions that are deemed to need maturity.

on with the fireproof knickers...

BunnyLebowski · 22/03/2013 20:15

I have never simultaneously Hmm'd and Grin'd so much in my life as I just did at greencolourpack.

Delusion at it's absolute worst.

greencolorpack · 22/03/2013 20:18

DadonIce, no not really. I can't prove that prayer works.

Nobody can be argued into believing in God. If you want to believe in God then do some research. If you don't want to then don't. Sorry of I was waffling. I know it might be thought of as true for other religions. I can't explain why Islam thrives so much. But there you go. Being a Christian doesn't magically give you all the answers.

greencolorpack · 22/03/2013 20:19

Bunny that's not very nice.

DadOnIce · 22/03/2013 20:25

Oh, not expecting "magical" answers, just some sot of logical consistency. If this was the first time I'd ever heard about this God guy, I'd be thinking he didn't sound very nice - he sounds like some kind of power-tripping genie who every so often gives you three wishes then refuses to grant two of them.

I've done research, that's the problem - and all the responses people give about their faith and about god boil down to one, simple, irreconcilable problem for me. I have never heard anything about any god which makes it in any way distinct from a fictional, mythological or imaginary being.

marjproops · 22/03/2013 20:25

dadonice You are asking so called genuine questions then mocking the answer. methinks you are just goading and please stop it now, its all getting very tiresome this 'my bikes better than your bike' type thing.

can we respect each others views and stop being so pedantic?

this is getting out of hand now.

DadOnIce · 22/03/2013 20:26

But if you say that god has "the power to answer prayer", you must surely have one or two examples to illustrate this?

greencolorpack · 22/03/2013 20:30

I have millions of examples but I've noticed after about two posts that you are out to put a "kick me" sign on my back and you're trying to get me to post about my most personal vulnerable moments in life when God was there for me. Put yourself in my shoes, would you bother having that conversation? You dont understand God, I get it. mazel tov. Peace out etc.

hiddenhome · 22/03/2013 20:31

You know fine well that if anybody comes on this thread and explains how their prayer was answered, you will also find reasons why what they asked for was given to them by circumstances Hmm

seeker · 22/03/2013 20:34

I do find it very frustrating that it seems to en impossible to chqllenge or question Christianity without being accused of being agressive, rude and Christiqn bashing. And that so much energy is expended on this "flaming by atheists" that is supposed to go on.

I am an athiwt. To me, believing in God is exactly the same as be living in fairies, or homeopathy or Zeus. Is that an offnsive thing to say? I don't think it is- but I am sure that others will. So what words can I use to express my point of view?

Oh, and nobody has to defend thier belief if they don't want to. But if you make categoric statements like "God answers prayers" then surely you can expect to be asked to produce evidence?

DadOnIce · 22/03/2013 20:34

Sorry, that wasn't what I was after doing at all. Blimey. I just wanted evidence for the claim, that's all. Not wanting to pry into anything personal.

'I've been told the "you don't understand god" thing before and (a) it's highly patronising and (b) indicative of the lack of any good arguments. A shame.

Anyway, I think the OP has been given enough answers to her question to be going on with, so I don't think I need trouble anyone any more.

hiddenhome · 22/03/2013 20:35

tbh, I'm quite happy believing in something that may not be true if it means that I'm a more pleasant, tolerant person, than not believing in it and coming across as being a mean minded, arrogant, intolerant pedant who gets their kicks by taking the piss out of others.

Thistledew · 22/03/2013 20:36

If good and surprising things happen to non-Christians if they pray or even just really hope for them, does that mean that they happen by circumstance, or does it mean that god answers your prayers/greatest hopes regardless of what you believe in?

ethelb · 22/03/2013 20:37

Bunny chill out.

Dadonice im christian and I dont think Christianity will necessarily exist forever. I think it will only last as long as people want a religion that preaches the laity can have a personal relationship with god, and a relugion that anyone can join.

My understanding is that that is why christianity became more popular than the 'old pagan' Gods. Though of course many of the most popular aspects of the old religions were absorbed. The same may happen to Christianity in the future.

ethelb · 22/03/2013 20:38

Amen hiddenhome!

seeker · 22/03/2013 20:40

"tbh, I'm quite happy believing in something that may not be true if it means that I'm a more pleasant, tolerant person, than not believing in it and coming across as being a mean minded, arrogant, intolerant pedant who gets their kicks by taking the piss out of others."

This is the sort of thing I mean. You just can't challenge or question- or this is the sort of thing that comes your way.

ethelb · 22/03/2013 20:41

Seeker it depends what your opinion on people who beleive in Zeus and faeries is? Grin

hiddenhome · 22/03/2013 20:42

Yes, but you are like that seeker Hmm

seeker · 22/03/2013 20:42

What do you mean?