Why do some Christians have a problem with Harry Potter?

[chipmonkey]

Genuine question, no criticism intended!

Ds2 has a friend, a teenager, who is not allowed to read Harry Potter or watch the movies. He is allowed to watch Batman etc. His Dad is a Christian minister but I don't know what church, except that it's not Catholic.

I understand that it's the "witchcraft" references that are a problem but if so, why does it only seem to be Harry Potter? Is Lord of the Rings OK?

To me, they are all works of fiction and no-one claiming they are true and there have always been references to magic in childrens stories down through the years

IN certain branches of Christianity, it doesn't matter if the magic is real or not because the Bible forbids the practising of magic of any kind. See Deut 18: 9-12 amongst many others. Revelation21:8 says that anyone who practices magic arts will find themselves in the fiery lake of burning sulphur. Galations 5:20 says that those who practice magic will not inherit the kingdom of God.

The ability to practice magic is, in the bible, often linked with demonic possession and, at the very least, is seen as an indicator of false worship. Leviticus tell us that God will "set his face against" those who practise magic, human sacrifice and the like. In fact the whole bible is laced with prohibitions and condemnations of any kind of divination or magic.

All of this adds up to not engaging with any type of magic/fantasy for some Christians. Even reading your horoscope would not be allowed because that would be trying to divine the future.

Thank you stressed! That's what I was looking for!
I suppose I could have asked his Mum or Dad but I really like them, they are lovely, kind people and didn't want to come across as nosy/criticising. Although I am probably nosy!

Nellyjob the cat was "petrified" and not dead
lol oh well that's OK then..

I worked in different language schools and learnt never to use horoscopes in the lesson as it could offend Christians and Muslims alike.
My mum was always warning of the dangers of the tarot, the oiuja board, cults,
voodoo, and honestly even as a non Christian, I think she was right.
MY G*D she would have hated HP.
As for it being a 'children's classic', well we live in an age where 50 shades of shite is the latest literary sensation...so...

Only a few years ago I met a guy, probably in his 60s, who was reading The Lord of the Rings. I asked if he was enjoying the book and he said he was, very much. He then told me that it was the first work of fiction he had ever read. I was . His very religious parents told him that fiction was 'lies' and forbade him to read it. Following their deaths he had had a breakdown and during therapy had come to see that fiction per se is not an evil force.

I do not believe that books on crime make readers criminal, books on WW2 make readers Nazis or violent, or that Aga sagas make readers middle-class. Harry Potter books brought many children to reading and from that point of view have been a force for good.

I do not believe anyone should have an issue with HP unless a child is frightened by the content or a reader believes the book is badly-written or boring.

I don't remember C S Lewis being criticised for his Narnia books.

the fact that they are just flipping fab
have to agree to differ on that, stinky, (not jealous of JK being a millionaire, much)

www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2007/jul/17/harrypottersbigconisthep

Ah, he's just jealous!

said chipmonkey smilingly

LOL!

HP is a Christian allegory as the core message is about the redemptive power of love. It is also directly messiahistic as Harry, by voluntarily laying down his life, saves everyone.

The criticisms of HP (mainly arising from US) were made before the final book made the allegorical elements obvious, though they are present throughout.

Gosh, I've just noticed an error in the naming of the this board. If we want Mumsnet to be acceptable to people in the US, It should be Sorcery/Religion/Spirituality shouldn't it?

What about the athiests or agnostics? They don't even have a thread not to believe in?

Interesting with J K Rowling about the Christian themes.

frontpaw

Course CS Lewis was a Christian and a non-fictional Christian writer and Christian themes run throughout the Narnia books so it's not the ideal comparison to HP. I agree though, there's definitely a good overcoming evil theme in HP and the principle of self-sacrifice throughout.

I'm a Christian and a rather more straight laced than myself friend told me I shouldn't be reading HP books. She'd been to a seminar on why they were so evil. Course she'd not read them herself I take them as they are - entertaining fiction. All I would say is they can be quite absorbing, I found myself doing little but reading them and getting quite deeply into them at times so I made the choice to give the books to a charity shop instead!

The only thing that disconcerted me was the no killing thing in HP - notice evil characters use the unforgivable curses but generally the good would never. Snape is a bit different because he was asked but Molly killing Bellatrix did not sit well with me. I know it was defending her daughter but still..... do I read too much into it?!

there are NO references to tarot or ouija boards in Harry Potter, ffs. But lots of people who haven't read them think there are. NB why is tarot more real-world magical than the star signs in the Daily Fail?

Its a side topic but many people seem to have missed the fact that the Narnia books are an allegory CS Lewis created to teach children about the Christian faith... its quite obvious in Voyage of the Dawntreader, practically says 'Aslan is Jesus'. Still if people think HP is about ouija and tarot.... People are strange.

HP is stuffed with the non real world magic, but real world magic such as fortune telling etc is heavily discouraged. Remember the subject Divination and the teacher being rather kindly belittled and dismissed.

The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe is practically a re-writing of the gospels by CS Lewis in child-friendly tones. Judas is even forgiven and elevated to a seat of power at the end. The whole Narnia series is so heavily and obviously religious, I'm now having to work out if I should deny my children a classical and very good series! (I'm atheist-agnostic btw).

HP has a lot of what can be seen as glamourising 'dark arts' and of course there is the lack of choice element to whether you are a muggle or a magic person (could be seen as analogous to the gay debate). HP wasn't written to teach children about god and the new testament, Narnia was.

HP is as harmful as Ben and Holly imo (although I do have reservations about B&H). I think the fear from some sects is that HP would be a 'gateway drug' to other 'dark arts'.

The analogies in Narnia are far more dangerous imo.

AnitaBlake

Why would you ever want to deny such a great story to your children.

1. if they don't know the link to the bible then they will just think "that is a great story" (because it is). It isn't going to magically brainwash them!

2. if it helps children understand a really important book in the history of the world, then it will help them understand other references in great literature, which will assist in their education in the long term.

3. it is a great story.

I am very atheist, but my kids have seen it and I have explained all about it. They love the film, and hopefully they will use it to make their own decision on faith in later life (once armed with all the options and facts.

Wasn't JK Rowling involved in in the occult though, I remember reading that when HP books had just emerged, and she based HPs spell on real spells?

I'm not sure HP is the same as LOTR or Narnia, apot of Christian arents don't want their kids exposed to themes that are non Christian in nature I.e. witchcraft, spells etc

Personally I don't have a mega problem with it but each to their own!

My friends from church who are anti-HP are of this opinion because of its 'occult' themes and the fact magic is involved. Separate people have informed me that

a) The spells in the books are 'real spells' used by people who really do practice witchcraft.
b) J K Rowling is, in fact, a witch.

I very much doubt a) and it's well-publicised that JKR attends church.

I unashamedly love HP.

A word of warning to the OP and anyone else with friends who don't like HP on religious grounds.

They are likely to be absolute kill joys about Halloween.

In fact many perfectly HP tolerant evangelical Christians are silly about Halloween (including one who's son I'm sure has been HP for book day).

Drives my Canadian Evangelical friend nuts, her church here has an alternative party that day.

Of course being North American Halloween is a huge thing and she says not as dark. People don't all dress up in spooky outfits, lots of other characters are worn.

As to literary snobs having a go at HP, I sentence them to read Dan Brown and Dickens for all eternity.