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Original poster

What DS did at Sunday school - he's 3

53 replies

deliakate · 20/08/2012 11:23

A pretty picture with some silver foil for a mirror and some decoration stuck around. A printed piece of text stuck on at the bottom reads:

When I look in the mirror I can see what I am like.
God is like a mirror, he tells us what we are like.
God tells us that none of us is good enough to be his friend.
Luke 18:9-14

AIBU to feel a bit upset about this? I feel like it won't be good for his self-esteem, his view of God.... anything. Is there any value in teaching children this young about their sinful nature?

Quite apart from the fact that the text is not Luke 18:9-14 (which is the parable of the pharisee and the tax collector) - it is not a bible quotation at all, so why should they write the reference as though it was?

AIBU to go in to the church during the week and find out what is going on??

OP posts:
wigwaminamustardmill · 20/08/2012 12:01

JumpingThroughMoreHoops - Have you ever been to a Baptist church?

Tiggles · 20/08/2012 12:02

Confused as a Sunday School leader I wouldn't be happy about text like that being used for any age, let alone a 3 year old. Yes the fundamental message of the bible is no-one is perfect, but the fact that quote misses is that God loved us enough to do something about it. But a 3 year old certainly doesn't need it pointing out to them like that.

Personally I would go and see the vicar with the mirror and a print out of Luke 18. That isn't even a paraphrase of what is in Luke 18. The vicar is unlikely to know exactly what goes on in the Sunday School and presumably would be a bit Shock.

valiumredhead · 20/08/2012 12:03

I have been to a Baptist church - that one was fire and brimstone.

Machadaynu · 20/08/2012 12:04

I can see where they have got that message from Luke 18:14

"every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted"

i.e if you tell God you are bobbins he laps it up.

However, as you have discovered, the religious are very prone to make thing say what they want to. If you are worried about his self-worth and so on then I would suggest that the Abrahamic religions are not the way. Later on he will learn that no matter how good he thinks he has been, God had to murder his own son to be able to bear to look at him, such is his abhorent nature to the loving, merciful God that made him.

If you are lucky DS won''t then ask quite how murdering his perfect son allowed God to forgive sins if he couldn't before.

If you are really lucky he won't ask why an omnipotent being would need to do anything - if he is omnipotent, who or what made him allow Jesus to be murdered / cause him to be murdered?

The Christian message is - God made us all with perfect knowledge of what we would do, but hates us so much that once he drowned everyone, and then regretted it, even though he is omniscient. Then he waged some wars, slaughtered people, sent plagues, tortured Job (who was sort of perfect too - God hates sinners, but being perfect isn't a great plan either) and generally thought we were all a bit rubbish - so rubbish that he couldn't stand us unless we murdered animals every now and again to appease him.

Then, perhaps sick of all the complaints from the animals, he made a woman pregnant even though that wasn't necessary, and even though he'd deliberately made childbirth painful. Then he had his son tell people that God loved them - even though they still suffered and God could stop it. So convincing was the word of God spoken by actual God / God's son, that hardly anyone believed him at the time. In the end, God had his son slaughtered so we didn't have to kill animals in order for God to be able to tolerate us - his beloved children. He's not done much since. The End.

If you're happy with DS having to make sense of that lot, and having a heavenly father that loves him so much he can only stand to look at him now he's murdered his perfect son (not your DS - the good one, Jesus - that son) then keep sending him to a Sunday School ....

think the message is inappropriate btw :)

Puremince · 20/08/2012 12:58

What does he usually bring home from Sunday School? If this is the first thing that you've been unhappy with, I'd wonder if the usual Sunday School teacher was on holiday, and the stand-in was inept.

I'd definitely speak to the vicar - I'm sure he'd want to know.

ReallyTired · 20/08/2012 13:15

That is horrible. At three years old children should be enjoying church.

Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." Matthew 19:14

Ofcourse a three year old is good enough to be God's friend, otherwise Jesus would not have wanted the little children to pester him.

These parables show that God wanted every single one of us.

www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+15&version=NIV

It sounds like the sunday school teacher has got some crap of the internet and not bothered to plan her lesson. I suspect that many churches take any willing person who passes the CRB check to do Sunday School, rather than actually checking they are reasonably knowledgable.

My husband wanted to be a welcomer and the church insisted that he get baptised and do confirmation classes. However when I have done Sunday school no one has ever checked that I have been confirmed.

JumpingThroughMoreHoops · 20/08/2012 13:17

Yes, I've been to a Baptist church. I work with a Baptist, who perpetually wants God to be smiting us all Hmm He really shouldnt be allowed to teach TBH

mercibucket · 20/08/2012 13:24

It's a crap message. I'd assume the summer programme is being a bit weird and wait and see how it settles down in sept, but do have a word with the leaders to see what they're doing

mercibucket · 20/08/2012 13:24

It's a crap message. I'd assume the summer programme is being a bit weird and wait and see how it settles down in sept, but do have a word with the leaders to see what they're doing

Bobloblaw · 20/08/2012 13:32

My DPs family are evangelical and taught him that nightmares were the devil coming to get him in his sleep and all manner of terrifying messages, very fire and brim stone. I went to Sunday school and had a lovely time, I most vividly remember the biscuits Blush

MrsMiniversCharlady · 20/08/2012 13:38

My parents took the dcs to their church and sunday school a while ago. DD (9) came back saying that if you are ill then you have to say sorry for everything that you have done wrong and then god will heal you Shock Given that a child at school had recently died of cancer I was pretty bloody angry!! Parents denied that anything like that was said, which frankly I found rather unbelievable.

I was raised in this environment and it did a lot of damage to my self-esteem and mental health generally. I would never choose for my dcs to go to church at all, particularly an evangelical one.

WingDefence · 20/08/2012 13:41

We attend a relatively fire & brimstone congregational church but I would be massively upset if my 3yo brought home something that said God doesn't think we can be his friend! Shock

That goes counter to everything we believe and teach children abuot God and Jesus - that they are our friends and love us very much. And you're right about the fact it doesn't say that at all in that passage.

I would have a word with the vicar first and just mention that you found it a bit strange then go from there. If you like the church and have made friends it would be a shame to leave over this issue alone.

NarkedRaspberry · 20/08/2012 13:43

That made me Shock and I've been taught by nuns.

AGilchrist · 20/08/2012 13:45

I had an entirely catholic education and dd went to a catholic school for a short time.
The message was god IS everyones friend and loves everyone.
I wouldn't want my child being taught anything like that.

festivalwidow · 20/08/2012 13:56

Say what? I'm Catholic and this is a new one on me.
When I read the first line I thought you were going to say "God is like a mirror - we're all made in God's image and God cherishes every one of us" which would have made liturgical sense and been a nice intro into an equality chat.
Has someone got something - er - a little mixed up?
I'd go with the printout of Luke 18 and let the vicar know what's gone on anyway.

wigglesrock · 20/08/2012 14:05

I also thought we were going towards the image and likeness of God angle. I would mention it, but I don't know anything about Sunday School - can he not stay with you?. At Mass (Catholic) where I am its only primary school age children that go to the Liturgy club for about 10/15 mins. My dd never did anything like that, although she did come out sporting a very fetching new hairdo once Blush

Nancy66 · 20/08/2012 14:07

Just keep your kids away from religion and you can't go wrong.

BagofHolly · 20/08/2012 14:15

I'm Catholic, we don't do the guilt bit now with little ones, and that Sunday school nonsense sounds AWFUL! I'd complain, bitterly. It sounds like you've got a weirdo organising it.

MNHQ
OlympiaMumsnet · 20/08/2012 19:12

Hello all
We are going to move this thread to our philosophy and religion section
Thanks
MNHQ

HerRoyalNotness · 20/08/2012 19:18

Can you look up the scripture in the meantime that says Abraham was a friend of God. (can't remember offhand what it is) and explain that he was a man and Gods friend so your DS can be too. Then get all fire and brimstone
On the SS teachers arse

hokeycakey · 20/08/2012 19:27

Machadaynu I wish there was a like button for your post, I was raised in a very hellfire and brimstone evangelical church, my dad had a mark of the beast barcode collection, I went to bed petrified of the Antichrist

We never did something like this in Sunday school I think it's a bit harsh!

newlark · 20/08/2012 19:37

My 3 yr old came home with the same thing (along with other sheets) - I wonder if we are at the same church? I would very much doubt that it would be taught in isolation - without the good news about Jesus. I don't think my ds would have taken it in at all but I do try to chat to my dcs about what they have learnt afterwards - and dd (5) (who had been in another group) and I had a chat about how we can be friends with God after the service.

headinhands · 20/08/2012 21:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Machadaynu · 21/08/2012 09:26

HerRoyalNotness - the friendship between God and Abraham was a bit abusive though. God had all the power, and used it to give Abraham the illusion that he had to choose to murder his own son or be separated from God (of course he had no such choice to make - what God wants, God gets, God help us all)

If I had a 'friend' who had power over me and made me choose between two unacceptable choices, I'm not sure it'd be a 'friendship' I'd want to carry on with.

headinhands - I wish you were joking :(

headinhands · 21/08/2012 10:09

machad - those weren't even his most offensive views. He didn't go to church though because apparently they're all under the control of Satan but somehow god had chosen to real all the truth about reality to him. I'm not entirely comfortable now that I even said what one of his fucked up ideas were. Maybe I should get it deleted.