What is Hell?

[skewiff]

I'm interested in whether people think anything does actually exist after death.

Do you believe in Hell - this question is for Christians, I suppose - if you do believe in Hell, what is Hell like?

A hindu said to me the other day that Hell was life, here, on Earth.

I see evidence for God in the complexity and wonder of creation, the beauty of truly selfless love, the feeling that love, joy, peace (and the other qualities God is believed to have) are the best ways to live - and in many other things, too. There is evidence for and against God, Himalaya, it's just that for you the evidence against is more compelling.

I agree with others that hell is eternity without God, but not fire. Maybe ceasing to exist - hadn't realised other people thought that, but that's the view I'm coming round to.

Don't think of it as God vindictively sending you to room 101, though. If you've lived your life happily having nothing to do with God, why would he force you to spend eternity with him? I could imagine that idea would be pretty unpleasant to some!

It seems a bit convenient to imagine that hell (which is not such a useful or fashionable idea anymore) was just a biblical typo and what it really meant all along was "when you're dead you're dead" (except if you believed, in which case you will live on in eternal paradise, but don't worry you wouldn't have liked it anyway).

It just seems odd and arbitrary. IIf eternal life is important and the reason we are here why should the entry ticket be belief. It's not very equal opportunity is it? since what you believe depends so strongly on what you are brought up to blelieve. I guess not many Chinese peopl
went to heaven under communist rule?

I am a Christian and I think of hell as total separation from God/Love. My concept of salvation is the state having a relationship with God, however imperfect it is. I am fairly agnostic about what form any afterlife takes - it's not why I'm a Christian.

Some Christians believe in something called universal salvation, which in a nutshell is the idea that God is so loving all souls will ultimately choose to be reconciled with him (NB I don't think of God as gendered). I'm not sure I go that far - certainly I don't think that salvation is a linear process, and I think it is possible to gain salvation after death - but I'm not very keen on the idea that's it's inevitable that you will choose to love God. It seems a bit Big Brotherish to me. So I guess my general thought is that yes, it's possible to totally reject God forever, but that the numbers of people who would actually do so, given the nature of God, would be vanishingly small.

Not sure how theologically sound this is, but there is a bit in The Last Battle by CS Lewis where someone who worshipped a different god to Aslan goes to heaven. Aslan explains this by saying that whenever he did something good in the false god's name, he really did it for Aslan, because Aslan is the source of all goodness. So he gets to go to heaven. Now, Christians would say that the only way to God is through Christ. So the question is, it is possible to know Christ and to try to be Christ-like even if you don't call yourself a Christian, or even have never heard of Jesus? I would say yes, so that doesn't mean that non-Christians automatically go to hell. Why would God want his creation to go to hell anyway? If you think, as I do, that he made the world, and us, for the sheer selfless love of it, why would he reject anyone?

I agree, FairPhyllis, that someone's heart can be right with God even if that person doesn't know about Jesus. Jesus died so that everyone might be able to have a relationship with God, not just those people who have heard of him. In fact, maybe those who have heard of Jesus have it harder - they have less excuse for rejecting God, if they could have got to know him any time they chose.

But no-one, as I said earlier, is forced into it. It is my choice and yours. By the way, to answer an earlier comment, I don't feel God much at the moment. I've had a year or so of feeling little or nothing and my faith has been quite shaky as a result at times. But I still choose to believe. Feelings aren't the most important thing and I won't be led by them unless I decide to.

Why is hell a typo, Himalaya? What does the Bible really say about hell? There's some possible mention in Jesus' parables - well, they are pictures, quite clearly. And some stuff in Revelation - which is full of really surreal imagery and also clearly not to be taken literally. It seems more likely that people in the past literalised those passages because it suited their purposes than that people today take them metaphorically because it suits them. Do you know of another passage which implies there is literally eternal suffering?

You are also thinking very much with a focus on self. Eternal life and heaven are most definitely not the reason we are here. The reason we are here is to be in relationship with God. That shifts the focus away from us and onto God, which is a much healthier place for it to be.

I am never more glad to be soulless than when reading something like this.

Ceasing to exist is just fine by me, I'll be in good company with the 99.9% of other organisms this planet has ever supported!

I don't believe in sin. I don't believe in "mistakes." I don't believe in retribution. I don't believe that humans are higher beings above other primates. And I sure as hell don't believe that we are so special that we have a purpose.

Economy class.

I'm a Christian who does believe hell exists. In the burning fires for all eternity kind of way. I find it really difficult to accept, don't get me wrong, as I believe god is merciful and loves each and everyone of us as his own children. But I also think there are evil forces out there, that the devil does indeed exist too. The place he comes from can not be anything but utter horror and misery. I think you've got to decide which side you are on and where you are going. Yes I do believe you can be an excellent person, behave impeccably your whole entire life but if you don't acknowledge Jesus you've had it. That's difficult for anyone to accept. I think if you are a non-believer it sounds nuts, it sounds scary and just plain ridiculous. So yes I'm not surprised some people say hell is a way of keeping Christians in line, because the idea of facing it is just too frightening.

Lostmywellies -

I am asking questions as an atheist - I can't choose to believe in god. It's impossible. That's why I wonder why a god (if he did exist) would make belief the crucial thing to decide if a person goes to heaven or hell/eaten by worms and then make it impossible for many people to believe by rigging the world to look exactly like it would if he didnt.

It seems like a weird and mean way to go about things.

Why is belief the golden ticket?

In terms of which bits of the bible might be metaphorical and which might be true I don't know how you can clearly know which bits are which. If you knock out all the bits that are miraculous on the grounds of physical inpossibilty you are left with some Jewish history mythologised, Jesus is born, gets some followers, tells some stories and is executed. Is everything else clearly metaphorical, or how can you tell which bits are clearly true? I just don't get it!

I think you are absolutely right - you just don't get it - yet. My husband has just committed his life to God, about 4 months ago. He was just like you. It didn't make sense to him. But one day it just 'clicked'. If anyone had asked me to describe his beliefs previously I would have said, 'total atheist'.

I think you won't feel like this forever. I think your perception of life will change as you grow older, one day god will speak to you, call out to you if you like, and you'll have no doubts it will be him. Whether you will choose to ignore or not will be up to you.

My own belief is that the spiritual world is like a massive globe with God at the centre, like a bright sun. The more pain and hatred you cause, the further you are from the light, the more love and joy you spread, the closer you are to the centre. So if you were to liken it to a solar system, hell is Pluto and heaven is Mercury. But I do think that people who end up at Pluto can gradually end up at mercury if they realise the damage they have caused and seek reconciliation. And God is all-loving and all powerful and wants us to end up close to him.
I don't think religious beliefs in themselves determine where you go. I think that those religious leaders who preach hatred towards other groups of people may be in for a bit of a shock when they pass over and find that the good Muslims, kind and thoughtful homosexuals and helpful atheists are right there where they belong, close to the light. And I think the atheists who are kind, loving and caring to their fellow human beings here on earth may be in for a pleasant surprise. I also thiink animals pass over too. I hope so.

Soft play on a wet day at half term.

Flagnogbagnog, the same thing happened to me as happened to your DH.

I was an atheist, had been one for a long time and then I felt God's presence (I know how lame that sounds). It took me a while to come out to my friends and I was the subject of well meaning banter for a while.

As for hell? I don't really know, just as I don't know what heaven is.
What I do know is: Given the choice, I want heaven.

Dione can you unpack your road to 'conversion' a bit more? I can't remember a time that I didn't believe in God, so I would love to know what happened between being atheist and being Christian.

Firstly, no hell in the Bible. The Hebrew idea of Sheol - a take on a common idea amongst many ancient religions was just the pit where everyone went like the Shades in Greek myths.

The words Hades (Greek) and Tartarus (Greek) are both mentioned in the NT as is Gehenna (Greek from Hebrew) and was, according to the Jews, the place where apostate Hebrews and the worshippers of Ba'al sacrificed their children - the Hebrews conveniently forgetting that their early religion also practised infanticide.

By the time of the writing of the NT this place was just the rubbish pit outside Jerusalem. It has been suggested (much to the horror of Christians) that this may well be where the body of Jesus of Nazareth ended up. As an executed common criminal there would have been little concern from the authorities (i.e. the Romans) about burial procedures for such a character.

DutchOma, there was no road, just a moment. I was looking out my window and I felt as though something, it's hard to describe it, it was as though I was wrapped in something or someone wrapped his arms around me. And not a physical voice, but a communication none the less saying that I was not alone, that I would be looked after.

It was weird because I was actually not alone or feeling sad or vulnerable. There was no logic to it at all. But I couldn't deny it happened. I didn't mention it to anyone else for a while though.

Thank you for that, Dione, that must have been very remarkable indeed.

I hope you will be able to think back to that moment when the going gets tough and know that you will never again be alone.

A figment of people's over active imaginations.

Hell is a tool for trying to control people during the one life they actually have. It doesn't exist except in the minds of human beings.