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Original poster

Cameron on Christianity

38 replies

tuffie · 18/12/2011 16:16

Good to see David Cameron is recommending a return to Christian values. I certainly don't agree with a lot of his policies ,but nice to hear him have the courage to say this.

OP posts:

rabbid · 18/12/2011 16:17

praise the lord

MudAndGlitter · 18/12/2011 16:22

What a lovely viewpoint for other religions living in this country

slug · 18/12/2011 16:24

Or for the increasing number of Britains who are rejecting Christianity

ToxicMoxie · 18/12/2011 16:27

I know I will get blasted for this, but it's a question I've had for a while...

A lot of those values are also held by non-Christians. Why don't we say something like "good morals" or "good values" rather than Christian? I mean, there are a lot of values in the Bible that I don't think we should consider returning to, ever. There are lots of good ones too, of course. But the cherry-picking just looks hypocritical and opens up so many cans of worms which really seems to get in the way of the actual conversation, which is let's strive to be the best person we can be.

dontletthebellsend · 18/12/2011 16:30

I think its bollocks. Its insulting to reduce Christianity to Nice Guyism and insulting to people of other faiths and non to suggest that they are morally bankrupt.

MudAndGlitter · 18/12/2011 16:30

I think politics and religion should always be kept separate. I'm not of any religion I pick and choose bits I quite like from them all but I don't expect everyone to agree and would certainly not voice my religious preference so publicly if I were the leader of a multi religious country.

hocuspontas · 18/12/2011 16:30

What exactly ARE Christian values? I'd like to know which ones are the same as mine and which ones I don't have.

MudAndGlitter · 18/12/2011 16:32

Sharing fish with your neighbours?

hocuspontas · 18/12/2011 16:33

Aah. Fallen at the first one already. I hate my neighbour and certainly wouldn't share fish with him. Next?

amerryscot · 18/12/2011 16:38

Hooray for DC! Thanks be to God.

amerryscot · 18/12/2011 16:39

I believe that Christian 'values' are share wholeheartedly with other faith groups. There is no worry there.

OneHandFlapping · 18/12/2011 16:41

Politicians should stick to politics.

oathkeeper · 18/12/2011 16:46

I think what he meant was that the basics of our laws are based on the ten commandments. And that the bible is in large about Morality as well as religion.

I do agree with his sentiments.

Which is painful to admit as i think he is a lying hypocritical bastard.

meditrina · 18/12/2011 16:50

If you're going for the 10 Commandments as the basis, then you include Judaism and Islam automatically.

I'm not sure what specific aspects of Christianity he means; it might mean little more than "Do as you would be done by" which isn't a bad starting point.

Does anyone have a link to a transcript?

amerryscot · 18/12/2011 16:51

Jesus was highly political.

amerryscot · 18/12/2011 16:52

Not 10 commandments as much as the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5 - 7).

GrimmaTheNome · 18/12/2011 16:58

Blimey, he could have waited till Hitch was in his grave so he could turn in it. .

Seriously, its pretty offensive to the many people who manage to lead ethical lives without recourse to a Bumper Big Book of Rules, and can manage by using their own conscience to be good citizens without needing a God checking up on them. And instill such values in their children without either guilt or promises of heaven.

oathkeeper · 18/12/2011 16:59

I am agnostic and rather ignorant as far as religion goes.

When i first saw the headlline "Cameron seeks to return to a more christian time" all i could think of was work houses, institutes for the unmarried or infirm and the disabled rarely reaching adulthood.
Which seemed to make perfect sense given the welfare reform bill.

But still, in general terms i agree with what he said. That we should not be afraid to stand up and say that no, we will not alter our cultural norms simply because you shout loudly.

As i said, that feeling alone surprises me as i normally think that people who spout this sort of watered down EDL/BNP bile are usually just bigotted ignorants who are trying to conceal their true intentions.
Which i am still not entirely convinced isn;t the case with DC

hocuspontas · 18/12/2011 17:05

Everything that Grimma said.

I like the Hitch comment even though it's a sad week for all us atheists and supporters.

amerryscot · 18/12/2011 17:16

What is so offensive?

If you are an atheist but agree with what it says in the bible (as well as holy books of other world faiths), then what is the problem?

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And you think this way because you were made in the image of God

OpinionatedMum · 18/12/2011 17:24

His policies are not Christian at all they resemble social Darwinism.

GrimmaTheNome · 18/12/2011 17:30

If you are an atheist but agree with what it says in the bible (as well as holy books of other world faiths), then what is the problem?

Because there is a lot in the Bible I don't agree with. Starting with the notion that faith in the supernatural is A Good Thing. Sorry, irrationality is bad. I don't believe the doctrine of original sin is in the least bit helpful, nor that the biblical solution of justification by faith makes any logical or ethical sense.

I agree with the Golden Rule (or modifications thereof - 'do unto others' is a bit egocentric, others may not want exactly the same as you) but that is far from being a uniquely Christian concept.

AmberLeaf · 18/12/2011 17:34

Id be interested to know where his welfare reforms particularly those directed at people with disabilities fit with christian 'values'

GrimmaTheNome · 18/12/2011 17:38

2 Thessalonians 3:10 maybe (though that's for the 'workshy' rather than those who can't work).

NotADudeExactly · 19/12/2011 06:53

As an atheist I agree with a lot of what Grimma has said. It is offensive to non-christians, especially those of no religion. The idea that belief in a higher power is somehow a necessary prerequisite of a sense of right and wrong is simply ludicrous!

On a more practical note: I'm not entirely certain which christian values DC is referring to. I'm assuming it's not the ten commandments; coveting is essentially the basis of capitalism and I thought he was a big fan. That alone should rule out this part of scripture. Maybe it's the stuff with the meek inheriting the earth (after they have meekly kept their mouths shut about his approach to the most vulnerable segments of society; naturally the inheritance should ideally be free market, benefir free and governed by the tories).

I think what DC really seems to be getting at here is that he generally wishes to see more deference to (he'd probably call it respect, though) authority. God as the ultimate authority serves as the example which may be emulated all the way down the chain of command. In other words: it's all about religion as a mechanism of social control.

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