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Philosophy/religion

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Is an ERPC for miscarriage ok from a Christian perspective?

29 replies

birdofthenorth · 22/11/2011 23:12

Hi all. Lost a baby today at 11 weeks. Bleeding heavily, scan showed it had stopped growing a while ago. No heartbeat. Trying to decide which of the three "management" options to go for & tempted by an ERPC but feel a bit icky about it being a bit like abortion (I believe in the right to choose before I'm flamed, just feeling shit today & messed up emotionally). I am practicing Church of England but we are interegnum at the moment so no vicar to turn to. I assume an ERPC in event of miscarriage is ok? I realise there is no rule book & this is a silly question. I just already feel guilty about every sip of caffeine & every heavy object lifted... don't want to compound it by feeling I've done the wrong thing!

OP posts:
JeelyPiece · 22/11/2011 23:16

I am atheist so cannot answer your question from a religious perspective but I saw your post and just wanted to say I am very sorry for your loss. I lost a pregnancy at 14 weeks last year and it's awful.

However the ERPC was quick and pa

Lynli · 22/11/2011 23:18

I am so sorry for your loss, and put your question down to your emotional state.

Morally ERPC and termination are completely different. Please don't worry about this. If you feel it is best for you then go ahead.

uglypotato · 22/11/2011 23:19

I'm a practising anglican. An ERPC will help you manage the aftermath of your miscarriage. Your little one has gone on to a better place already, so for me there wouldn't be any religious problems. :( I'm sorry for your loss.

IzzyWizzyletsgetbusy · 22/11/2011 23:23

birdofthenorth I'm so sorry for your loss Sad. I had a mmc at 16 weeks last year and opted for erpc as I simply couldn't face giving birth, it's a horrible decision to have to make. In all honesty I don't know what the theoretical church position would be; I'm Catholic but would never judge anyone for deciding to have an abortion. In the case of a mc however I don't even see it as abortion; the baby, sadly, has already died and is not harmed by the procedure.

However, as I've said, I don't know what the official position would be and I never asked my priest. However he knew what happened and never said anything to suggest he felt it was wrong, even saying a special mass for the baby on the day of the erpc, so I assume from that that he didn't feel my decision was wholly unchristian.

If you're still worried, why not speak to the hospital chaplain? Ours was lovely and even arranged a beautiful memorial service for our baby.

I'll be thinking of you in the days ahead xx

JeelyPiece · 22/11/2011 23:24

Sorry I have trouble posting from my phone.

The op was quick and painless and got me physically back to normal much sooner than I did the previous year when I had a natural mc. It is not an abortion, I know you know this but try to put that thought out of your head. You did not choose to end the pregnancy and you didn't cause the loss. The best thing you can do now is take care of yourself and go with the ERPC if that's what you want.

I don't know your situation so sorry if this is inappropriate but just to say, I was pg again 6 weeks after the op and am cuddled up with my 7mo DS now. Best of luck to you and I hope you have plenty of support in RL.

sfxmum · 22/11/2011 23:25

I am sorry for your loss
I had an ERPC for one of my miscarriages and I think it was the right thing to do
I don't see that there would be moral/ religious objections as all there is no life to take iyswim
please do not feel guilty as it is almost certain that nothing you did contributed in any way to this outcome
take care, do what you feel is best for you, mourn your loss and be kind to yourself

Pancakeflipper · 22/11/2011 23:28

You are dealing with the loss of a baby, I don't believe God will be frowning on you for having a ERPC, think he might hold your hand and give you a cuddle.

Take good care and I am sorry x

MintChocAddict · 22/11/2011 23:29

So sorry for your loss.

I'm not religious, however I don't believe ERPC to be in any way similar to an abortion, as there is no potential life to make a choice about in this situation unlike an abortion.
I'm sorry if that's upsetting for you, but I really believe that they are completely different scenarios.

The miscarriage wasn't your fault. It wasn't anything you did or didn't do. It just wasn't meant to be this time around.

Please make the decision that makes things as easy as possible for you at this really difficult time.

For me that was ERPC. It was quick, painless and I have no regrets. I'm sure that whatever you choose will be right for you, but please don't feel that you are doing anything wrong whatever you decide. You're absolutely not.

Take care.

eaglewings · 22/11/2011 23:40

So sorry to hear your baby has died

Yes, the operation is the same as for an abortion, but it is ethically completely different.

An ERPC once your baby has stopped growing is simple surgical management to stop complications that could arise like heavy bleeding, infection etc. It is not stopping life and is helping you prepare for another baby if you chose.

I have had 3 ERCP's and was a vicar, my DH is still a vicar. The operations have not compromised my faith

PM me if you want to talk more

eaglewings · 22/11/2011 23:41

Ps, what pancake flipper says is very true:)

Mmmnotsure · 22/11/2011 23:43

Poor you. I expect you are all over the place, if you have just found out. I had the same thing - it happened a long time ago now, but I remember how very sad and distressing it was. If you needed someone from a church to talk to/?check with, you could phone any local vicar of course.

Healthwise, and for the future, I would try to avoid infection, if I were you, so you might want to take the likelihood of that into account when choosing your options.

You know, don't you, that this was not your fault? Not lifting books or drinking coffee ... if that baby was going to stay, it would have stayed.

I am trying to be very careful not to say anything which may sound crass, or to upset you. An ERPC may be physically like an abortion, but it's not the same thing. You are not choosing to end something. For whatever reason, the baby is no longer viable, and it becomes a physical need to sort out, not a spiritual or ethical decision. It's a purely medical procedure now, so that your body can be healed, and to enable you, if you wish, to try again in the future.

I wish you well.

GodKeepsGiving · 22/11/2011 23:50

I'm very sorry for your loss. You have been through something really traumatic and I think that you are worrying unneccesarily. To put it bluntly, because your baby has already passed away, you can't be doing anything wrong now by having an operation to make you better. I was raised as a strict catholic and I honestly believe that this is the best course of action. Please don't dwell on the similarity between this procedure and having an abortion. It's damaging for you and a loving God wouldn't want you to go through any more than you already have.
Thoughts and prayers.

eminencegrise · 23/11/2011 00:01

Sorry for your loss. I had ERPC and am Catholic. Had several scans, the baby had stopped growing at 6-7 weeks, no heartbeat, but my body was not expelling it even 12 weeks on, so for me it was advised as the best option. Did't compromise my faith at all. The baby had no heartbeat.

TotallyUnheardOf · 23/11/2011 00:31

I am so sorry for your loss birdofthenorth. I am thinking of you.

birdofthenorth · 23/11/2011 08:27

You are all very lovely on this thread, thank you Smile

I really appreciate your answers, and your prayers, and your forgiveness of my muddled mind!

I do miss my vicar. Might call our pastoral worker or see the hospital chaplain. I am struggling to find the words to pray what U feel.

OP posts:
birdofthenorth · 23/11/2011 08:27

What I feel, even

OP posts:
CuppaTeaJanice · 23/11/2011 08:59

I've had an ERPC when a natural miscarriage didn't complete properly. The procedure may be the same as one type of abortion, but it is performed for a very different reason. I see it as one of the ways society has for dealing with the physical realities of death, much like burial or cremation.

chrchrch · 23/11/2011 10:34

So sorry for your loss, BOTN.

ERPC is something to help you heal. Also try to put aside those thoughts about caffeine and such like. Amongst many things, God is pure Love. Be well.

AMumInScotland · 23/11/2011 10:49

The hospital chaplain will almost certainly have had to talk through similar situations before. Don't worry about not finding the words to pray - God is there with you and can feel how you feel, you don't need to put it into words if you aren't ready to yet, just put yourself and your situation into His hands. You wouldn't expect a child to tell you exactly what was hurting and why, you'd just hug them. Just let God hug you, you don't need to tell him in words.

BleughCowWonders · 23/11/2011 10:57

I sometimes feel like the only one on MN who didn't have a ERPC for a missed miscarriage - but my religion had absolutely no bearing on it...

My timescales were: baby stopped growing at 6-7 weeks, found out at 11.5 weeks, and decided to wait and see. I only started bleeding after I'd told a group of very special friends and we were able to cry and grieve together, and my body then let go.

If you feel you need time to process it, then take the time. You will come to a decision that is right for you, whether it's to wait or go for the procedure.

It will come right in the end.

GodKeepsGiving · 23/11/2011 11:16

Hope you feel a bit better this morning.

madhairday · 23/11/2011 12:38

I'm so sorry for your loss.

^^what they all said. Especially the bit about letting God hold you.

CMOTdibbler · 23/11/2011 12:52

I'm so sorry for the loss of your baby.

I'd really recommend calling the hospital chaplain - I had dealings with one after my 3rd miscarriage, and they were so, so lovely and kind

nickelbabe · 23/11/2011 13:13

I'm so sorry :(

I'm a christian, and I would agree that an ERPC is not the same as a termination - mainly because it's clearing out your system, and not actively removing a viable foetus.

:(

I hope your pastor is sympathetic.

jaffababy · 23/11/2011 13:20

Hi and I'm so sorry for your loss. Nothing to add to what's been said, just a message of support. I've had two miscarriages and am practising Anglican. The first was natural but the second took some time. There was a HB at 8 weeks but hcg wasn't rising quickly enough and my doc said it wasn't a viable pregnancy. We waited a while and had a final scan where we could see the heart had stopped and there was blood in the sac, so we felt very free to take action. We decided to have medical management privately, so one lot of pills (think on the nhs you have to attend a clinic twice?), and we could both be at home comforting each other and praying (and crying, wondering 'why us?' etc. we're not the types to say that Christians shouldn't feel angry because 'God is in control'). We felt God was standing with us in our pain, which was a great comfort. We found a poem with the lines, "she is gone. Gone where? Gone from my sight, that is all.... And just at that moment when someone says "she is gone", there are others who are watching her coming, and other voices take up the glad shout, "there she comes!"

Sorry if that's all a bit intense. I'm so sorry you're going through this. Mumsnet is a great help to share and support.