Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Christians and cranial oesteopathy

51 replies

Jasmum · 08/12/2005 11:59

Can you please help me understand this...
I want to take my DS to see a cranial oesteopath and am not a church goer or a christian, my DP is however. He refuses to let me take him to see one that is highly recommended on the basis of the 'spiritual side' of their work as he calls it. He thinks its a load of rubbish who pray on people with issues. He's beleives that the laying of the hands on the body is a type of healing that goes against his beleifs.
We've never really discussed religion, I fell pg v.quikly after meeting him before the subject of religion had really come up. But he is VERY into his faith and I try to avoid the conversations about it. He takes our DD1 to church every Sunday and although it's not for me I don't have a massive problem with that. But now that it comes to me wanting to take Ds2 to a CO he's putting his foot down and says he will not allow it! Why, I don't understand the problem and we just end up arguing.
He read up about it on the web last nite and it's not recognised by the BMA or other official medical bodies and one site quotes "to channel the postive energies through the body" which he laughed at.
Please help me understand this...

OP posts:
Roobietherednosedreindeer · 08/12/2005 12:03

I don't understand....CO doesn't have anything to do with faith healing does it? I thought it was a physiological thing.

GemgleBells · 08/12/2005 12:12

I've heard of certain groups having a problem with it befor but can't say I understand why. If they think it's so laughable, what's the harm. Have you asked him to explain why?

Jasmum · 08/12/2005 12:20

Yeah, he says he's not having someone laying their hands on his son claiming to be able to channel the positive energies, that it's a type of healing that is not recognised by the church or official medical bodies.
He read last night that it was started by a mormon who was kicked out the church...can you guess the rest?
I don't understand his argument because I can't understand his faith and I don't know enough about CO to put through a strong enough case to change his mind.

OP posts:
frogs · 08/12/2005 12:21

The scientific research into cranial osteopathy and cranio-sacral therapy etc is very sceptical of any medical benefit, ie. the scientific consensus is that it's quackery. A five-minute search on Pubmed will show you that, and you don't need to cherry-pick the articles, either.

Having said that, many people do feel it's helped them/their child (which is not the same thing as proven efficacy, of course). And the putative mechanism for CO and Cranio-sacral therapy et al. may be scientifically dubious, but it's not based on any kind of spirituality, so I can't see why an orthodox Christian should have a particular problem with that aspect of it. Objecting to it on the evidential grounds, on the other hand, seems entirely reasonable, tho' to say they 'prey' on vulnerable people is a bit extreme.

Slightly suprised tbh that you/your dh haven't discussed the implications of his religious faith since it looks as if it's going to have considerable implications for your lives.

Sleighmenere · 08/12/2005 12:25

My dp who is a Registered Osteopath and State Registered Physiotherapist practices cranial osteopathy and he is very much a man of science. Osteopathy, including cranial osteopathy is a recognised form of diagnosis and treatment regulated by law under the osteopaths act. cranial osteopathy is based on principles of human anatomy and physiology and is not 'the laying of hands on' as per faith healing or anything alike. Many parents have found great relief for babies with colic and sleep problems and it may well work for your ds.

Jasmum · 08/12/2005 12:34

We met travelling, he didn't carry a bible and I had no reason to think he was so into it then. I fell pg within 6 wks of meeting him, and only after a flippant comment from me did I find out he was a christian. I didn't think much more of it till we got home (23wks pg) and only then met his family, friends ALL of which are christians. He attends groups, conferences, church and many social gatherings all of which are with his church people. None of my friends, family are involved and so really it was too late, by the time I realised how into it he was I was heavily pg with his child.

He's looked ont he web at it and for every positive he's found a negative and the'laying of the hands on the body' in the treatment has made his mind up.

The religion has troubled me a little bit in the past but I'm pretty easy going and as the ideas and the principles are decent I just kind of accepted that's waht he likes and thats up to him.

OP posts:
frogs · 08/12/2005 12:36

Well, physiotherapists lay their hands on the patient's body. That doesn't mean they're doing some kind of spiritual healing...

SantaClausFrau · 08/12/2005 12:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Curmudgeonlett · 08/12/2005 12:57

he doesn't seem to know much about what he's talking does he?

is physiotherapy, osteopathy, chiropracter faith healing

faith healing is surely channeling God to fix something

cranial osteopathy isn't ..

does he have issues with control?

Jasmum · 08/12/2005 13:28

He doesn't know what he's talking about no. And yes he does have issues with control!

Maybe I need to educate myself a bit more on it and have another go.

OP posts:
Curmudgeonlett · 08/12/2005 13:30

I think you need to talk to him .. there are some fairly fundamental ways that fundamental religions can f'k you up as a child .. you need to understand totally what he believes and what he is imparting to your daughter and be in agreement with him .. or at least happy to accept it

he just doesn't sound like much of a moderate from what you've said and I'd be concerned about a whole lot more than his belief about cranial osteopathy

sorry, if that's hard to hear it is just my opinion

xmasmcmudding · 08/12/2005 13:35

Not wishing to come across as judgemental, but if your dp is such a strong committed Christian who loves to bash you over the head with his own beliefs, then how come he's not done the traditionally Christian thing and married you? Wait until he's put his faith into action in his own life before you allow him to dictate how you look after you and your son.

PS I'm a born again Christian and personally wouldn't get involved in cranial sacral therapy, but as far as I understand that's different to cranial osteopathy. Is that what your DP is getting confused about? one is about channelling energy (big no no for Bible believing Chrisians) and one is about manipulating the bones and plates of the skull - sounds fine to me - is that right?

xmasmcmudding · 08/12/2005 13:37

Oh and laying on of hands for healing is entirely Biblical and I'm afraid Jesus did it fairly regularly!

Tortington · 08/12/2005 13:40

sex before marriage? oh lordy he's going to hell - i would argue that hes a christian only if his penis isn't dictating otherwise.

then i would tell him where to get off telling me what i can and can't do - its much different than a discussion

xmasmcmudding · 08/12/2005 13:42
Grin
CaptainDippyInTheSnow · 08/12/2005 14:12

I am a committed Christian and my cranial osteopath is also a committed Christian!! I was just desperate for anything that might help my DD2's feeding issues and I think that it has helped a little. It is AMAZING what they do and I have loads of respect for them - it is a scientific and medical practice not a form on "hands on healing" - if you want that, go to your local church!! I do not have a problem with CO at all - Tough one for you!!

BluStocking · 08/12/2005 14:19

Just take him?

walkinginawinterBundleland · 08/12/2005 14:20

personally I think cranial osteopathy is a waste of money, but if you feel very strongly about it just take him.

sunchowder · 08/12/2005 15:03

I have studied Dr. John Upledgers method of cranio-sacro therapy. (He was an Osteopath to begin with) Have your husband do a bit of reading on the web about him. It is not faith healing, it is about gentle manipulation of and hands on testing by feeling the pulses of the sacro-spinal fluid. I believe in this therapy and it has changed my life. I recommend it to anyone--it is always worth a try. Here is a cut and paste of what is found on the web in terms of things that they have had good results with:
By complementing the body's natural healing processes, CST is increasingly used as a preventive health measure for its ability to bolster resistance to disease, and is effective for a wide range of medical problems associated with pain and dysfunction, including:

Migraine Headaches
Chronic Neck and Back Pain
Motor-Coordination Impairments
Colic
Autism
Central Nervous System Disorders
Orthopedic Problems
Traumatic Brain and Spinal Cord Injuries
Scoliosis
Infantile Disorders
Learning Disabilities
Chronic Fatigue
Emotional Difficulties
Stress and Tension-Related Problems
Fibromyalgia and other Connective-Tissue Disorders
Temporomandibular Joint Syndrome (TMJ)
Neurovascular or Immune Disorders
Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder
Post-Surgical Dysfunction

Good luck with whatever you decide--I do not believe it can ever hurt you to try this and see what results you get.

frogs · 08/12/2005 15:12

I should PARP myself right now, but will confine myself to pointing out that there is a difference between a practitioner making claims about his own treatment methods and impartial scientific research.

There is no evidence for the pulses that craniosacral therapists claim to be able to manipulate. Have a read of this (can't link directly, it's in among a bunch of completely unrelated articles):

Craniosacral Therapy Is Not Medicine

To the Editor:

Although the prescientific thinking emblematic of most "alternative" health care may lead infrequently to fortuitous insights, many of these techniques have been tested, have failed, and should be abandoned.

For example, we have observed in our laboratory and described in Scientific Review of Alternative Medicine1 one of the manipulation procedures (craniosacral therapy/cranial osteopathy) used by many physical therapists, occupational therapists, osteopathic physicians, and others. Based on our observations, we have drawn several conclusions.

We believe that Sutherland's Primary Respiratory Mechanism is invalid. "Cranial" rhythms cannot be generated through organic motility of brains because neurons and glial cells lack the dense arrays of actin and myosin filaments required to produce such movement. Other hypotheses regarding genesis of this rhythm (eg, Upledger's "pressurestat" model2) remain purely speculative. Movement between the sphenoid and occipital bones at their bases is impossible past late adolescence because, by then, they have become one very robust bone.3-6 Movement among components of the cranial vault also is impossible in most adults because coronal and sagittal sutures usually have begun to ossify by age 25 to 30 years and the lambdoidal suture only slightly later.7-9 Interexaminer reliability is approximately zero, many published coefficients have been negative, and the most parsimonious explanation for data collected thus far is that practitioners are imagining the cranial rhythm.1 Finally, even if purported cranial and intracranial movements are real, are being propagated to the scalp, and are being assessed accurately by practitioners, there is no reason to believe that parameters of such movements should be related to health and no scientific evidence that they can be manipulated to a patient's health advantage.

Similarly, in 1997, the authors of a report prepared for The Insurance Corporation of British Columbia concluded that "no plausible functional background and no empirical evidence of effectiveness of craniosacral therapy could be discerned from the materials reviewed."10 In 1998, the National Council Against Health Fraud concluded that "cranial osteopathy is more a belief system than a science."11 In 1999, independent reviewers "found insufficient evidence to support"12 or "recommend craniosacral therapy to patients, practitioners or third-party payers for any clinical condition."13

We are aware of no scientific research supporting the clinical value of these techniques. We should not teach our students that health-related restrictions and imbalances in cranial and intracranial movements can be manipulated to a patient's health advantage, because there is no evidence supporting such claims. We are still deliberating these issues only because craniosacral therapy/ cranial osteopathy is a belief system?not medicine?and as such has been impervious to disconfirmation for most of a century.

We are not characterizing craniosacral therapy as just another approach to health care about which knowledge is incomplete. To the contrary, we believe that craniosacral therapy bears approximately the same relationship to real medicine that astrology bears to astronomy. That is, this approach to "health care" is medical fiction, and it is not appropriate to teach fiction as part of medical or allied health curricula.

We intend no disrespect for practitioners who may feel that their professional identities are challenged by our views. However, until researchers have replicated demonstrations of efficacy?using properly controlled scientific trials?we believe that craniosacral therapy/cranial osteopathy should be removed from all medical and allied health curricula.

Steve E Hartman, PhD
Professor
Department of Anatomy
College of Osteopathic Medicine
University of New England
Biddeford, ME 04005
([email protected])

James M Norton, PhD
Professor
Department of Physiology
College of Osteopathic Medicine
University of New England

References

1 Hartman SE, Norton JM. Interexaminer reliability and cranial osteopathy. Scientific Review of Alternative Medicine. 2002;6:23?40.

2 Upledger JE, Vredevoogd JD. Craniosacral Therapy. Chicago, Ill: Eastland Press; 1983:11?12.

3 Melsen B. Time and mode of closure of the spheno-occipital synchondrosis determined on human autopsy material. Acta Anat. 1972;83:112?118.

4 Madeline LA, Elster AD. Suture closure in the human chondrocranium: CT assessment. Radiology. 1995;196:747?756. Medline

5 Okamoto K, Ito J, Tokiguchi S, Furusawa T. High-resolution CT findings in the development of spheno-occipital synchondrosis. Am J Neuroradiol. 1996;17:117?120. Medline

6 Sahni D, Jit I, Neelam, Suri S. Time of fusion of the basisphenoid with the basilar part of the occipital bone in northwest Indian subjects. Forensic Sci Int. 1998;98:41?45. Medline

7 Cohen MM Jr. Sutural biology and the correlates of craniosynostosis. Am J Med Genet. 1993;47:581?616. Medline

8 Perizonius WRK. Closing and non-closing sutures in 256 crania of known age and sex from Amsterdam (A.D. 1883-1908). J Hum Evol. 1984;13:201?216.

9 Verhulst J, Onghena P. Cranial suture closing in Homo sapiens: evidence for circaseptennian periodicity. Ann Hum Biol. 1997;24:141?156. Medline

10 Oppel L, Beyerstein BL, Mathias R, et al. Craniosacral Therapy: A Review of the Scientific Evidence. Report prepared by the Alternative Therapy Evaluation Committee for The Insurance Corporation of British Columbia; 1997.

11 Cranial Manipulative Therapy: Information for Prudent Consumers From the National Council Against Health Fraud Inc. Loma Linda, Calif: National Council Against Health Fraud Inc; 1998.

12 Green C, Martin CW, Bassett K, Kazanjian A. A systematic review of craniosacral therapy: biological plausibility, assessment reliability and clinical effectiveness. Complement Ther Med. 1999;7:201?207. Medline

13 Green C, Martin CW, Bassett K, Kazanjian A. A Systematic Review and Critical Appraisal of the Scientific Evidence on Craniosacral Therapy. Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada: British Columbia Office of Health Technology Assessment; 1999.

PantomimEDAMe · 08/12/2005 15:18

Whatever you think of the evidence for cranial osteopathy, the fact is your dp is confused. It isn't 'laying on of hands' or spiritual healing. It's manipulation of the skull bones. Nothing spiritual about it. Your dp has misunderstood the whole thing.

sunchowder · 08/12/2005 16:14

Thanks Frogs! It is good to have another respected view and thanks for the cut and paste. I have seen results, so I have a difficult time not believing that something good is going on during the therapy. I respect everyone's position, I was just speaking from my own experience and I do believe it is worth going to see if you have positive results. Acupuncture is 2000 years oldlots of Westerners are split on that also, the same can be said for cupping therapy. Any of these so-called alternative therapies are under the same scrutinyI think that whatever gives you results is what you should try and stick with. If I need antibiotics, there is no way I am going to sit on a table and have cranio-sacro--there is a time and a place for these therapies.

Jasmum · 08/12/2005 18:51

Thanks eeryone for your advice and efforts. i talked to Dp tonight again and he's had a change of heart and accepts it if thats what I want to do.
So...big Thank you and fingers crossed for a good result.

OP posts:
Sleighmenere · 08/12/2005 19:03

That's great Jasmum - I hope it works for your ds

SantaClausFrau · 08/12/2005 19:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.