Qur'an burning

[faeriefruitcake]

That bigot went ahead and burnt a Qur'an. I hope Jesus revokes his license and books him a trip to a lake of fire.

Which is the politist thing I can think to write about now. The world is full of turmoil and pain and he just threw a whole lot of petrol on the fire.

CoteDAzur the reasons given by al qaeda for 9/11 were related to american military presence and israeli policy in respect to palastinians. if you read my post more carefully you will see that Saddam angle i mentioned is NOT in relation to al qaeda, but a separate point that was widely publicized in the muslim world as the just punishment for the american sanctions against iraq. i have never suggested that saddam was supporting al qaeda btw.

If you know any people of radical islamic views you will know very well that their aim as devout muslims is to unite the world into the global caliphate with sharia as the prevalent law of the land. I think that so-called moderate muslims are the ones who are capable of separating the religious aspect of Islam from the rest (cultural and political) and concentrating just on that (5 xday prayer, etc)

Actually, I have read Koran as I did Bible (long time ago) precisely to understand how is it possible to interpret something so radically different (this is what 'moderates' like telling us). It is my conclusion that as a set of teachings Islam is an intolerant religion. It is v similar to Judaism and Christianity because it is based on the same fundamental texts, however, older religions (Christianity in particular) have moved with time and adapted to modern society. Spanish inquisition is the history books and Catholic church has apologized for it. If you go to Israel there are public executions of gays. Not to say that both Judaism and Christianity are all inclusive, absolutely not. In fact, I believe that their 'vegetarian' taste was forced on them by the development of civil society and its institutions.

Your point about Islam being about 600 years too late in its development is spot on. However, I did not realize it has to go through certain stages before it reaches a stage where it is not longer acceptable to incite hatred for non-believers. Btw, there are plenty of muslim countries where you will not be shot for wearing a short skit, I know about this. It is not because they practice some other sort of Islam ("differently interpreted"), but because the civil society is rather more developed (i am thinking Turkey, Tatarstan amongst others). Try to go to Saudi Arabia or Iran and you will find an interesting finale to your atheist conversations on the street (not in the privacy of own home).

i do not proclaim to know it all, however, i am trying my best to educate myself. so far the facts and arguments i have found from sources i trust support my view that islam somehow developed the status of the only religion effectively standing outside the law and popular criticism through its violence and intimidation and i will not agree to that.

we started with terry jones and beheading of un workers in afghanistan. i still think that tj is a prick, but the islamic murderers should not be allowed "the excuse" of his stupidity

The bible is quite clearly divided into the Old Testament and New Testament. Most Christians I know use the NT as the 'guide for life' as it were. The Old Testament with it's blood and divine vengeance are more like a set of interesting stories. Is the Koran like that?

Salman Rushdie knew what he was writting would be found offensive and as for the Fatwa it was only bindng on the cleric who issued it.

Yes, Salman Rushdie had reason to believe that some would find what he wrote offensive. Not least because he was by no means the first to make the allusions and criticisms that caused all the trouble. But even if he was the first to make these suggestions and knew that some people would be offended, so what? What kind of society would we have if it were acceptable for people to be threatened with being killed just because some zealots people might be offended?

Frankie Boyle has reason to believe that a lot of his humour is offensive. But offensive as he undoubtedly is, it would be flat-out lunacy to expect someone to encourage others to kill Frankie just because he's offended some people.

"Frankie Boyle has reason to believe that a lot of his humour is offensive. But offensive as he undoubtedly is, it would be flat-out lunacy to expect someone to encourage others to kill Frankie just because he's offended some people."

It is even more ludicrous that your "killing Frankie" or "killing Rushdie" example - the people who are killed have nothing to do with the offender. No to say that "killing Frankie" is in any way justifiable.

Complete madness.

"What kind of society would we have if it were acceptable for people to be threatened with being killed"

It is not, and will not be acceptable, of course. Those fatwas were not issued around here. Theirs is a different society with different rules.

alemci - Funny name Do you know what it means?

Ormirian - No, Quran is not divided into a part to be followed and another to be ignored a la New Testament & Old Testament. Its stories are not as ridiculous and shocking as those of the Old Testament (although some bits are "backward" especially re women's place in society), and all of it is taken as God's literal word because the belief is that Quran has come down page by page, already written, from God himself.

As a Christian, I cannot agree that the old testament is to be ignored. Sometimes parts of it are difficult to understand and apply in modern society, but is most definitely not something to be ignored as suggested in the post above.

"Difficult to understand"

Like, the "righteous man" who offers his two virgin daughters to soldiers if only they would stop banging on his door? Or the one who goes crying to God when children make fun of his bald head, so God sends down two bears to tear the children to bloody bits? And wasn't there a point when a lot's daughters seduced him?

Sorry but a big LOL to "difficult to understand" as if there is any rational way to reconcile these insanely twisted tales with any sense of decency. Suddenly, the "scary" bits in Quran talking about smacking women and dressing them up from head to toe sound reasonable in comparison!

I know nothing about the Quran and am not able to comment upon it. I only wanted to clear up a misunderstanding on this thread as it seemed that some people thought the old testament had no relevance whatsoever to Christians. Many churches, for example, have both an old testament and a new testament reading each Sunday.

You can comment on the Old Testament then, yes?

Could you explain to us how a father who serves up his daughters for gang rape is a "righteous man"? Or how a God who sends bears to tear children into bloody bits because they made fun of a bald man can then claim to be All About Love for humankind?