what does a medium 'hear'?

[GoodDaysBadDays]

I'm a sceptic who'd quite like to be a believer.

What puzzles me most is why, if a medium can communicate with those who have died, can those spirits not just day "hi I'm john smith, I have a message for tracey smith"? Why all the cryptic clues and names that sound like others etc.

Is it hard to understand them? Do they not 'speak' as we do?

I'm not trying to start a debate about the rights and wrongs of mediumship, just curious as to what they hear and see.

Proved what?

I am thinking mainly of mediumship demonstrations. Most genuine mediums try to give as much evidential information as they can - information that identifies the spirit to the sitter and also hopefully includes information known only to both the spirit and the sitter.

Also psychic mediums (again I am talking about the real ones obviously!) prove it, hopefully, in every reading they do. If not convinced, the sitter should get a full refund. That's the way I was trained.

Do people think Psychic Sally is genuine? A friend of mine raves about her and is going to a live show. I've never even seen her on the TV but am a bit sceptical of it all.

Tbh I am not keen on Psychic Sally. Bit too celebtastic. Wasn't impressed when I saw on on Katie Prices Next Chapter thingymajig.

I have it on reasonalby good authority from someone who has worked with her many years ago, that, then at least, she wasn't particularly brilliant as a psychic, but got in with the sleb set and it spiralled from there.

Allegedly.

I reckon Lisa Williams and TJ Higgs are very good. I don't like Derek Acorah (too much showmanship, Kreed Kafer scandal etc) but he is very funny.

I haven't seen any recordings of Doris Stoke's 'shows' and can be a bit naive/gullible She just came across as a nice grandmotherly type who charged £2 per reading before agent Laurie discovered her. In one of her books though, see recounted giving a reading to Ann West and spoke about Leslie Ann Downey as if the reader wasn't aware of who she was.

Sorry, don't keep up with the current crop on TV!

"Most genuine mediums try to give as much evidential information as they can - information that identifies the spirit to the sitter and also hopefully includes information known only to both the spirit and the sitter."

But isn't it strange that such information never seems to be concrete things such as surnames and dates of birth? Instead there is usually any number of "I'm getting a 'G', or it might be a 'J'..." type tricks or "Someone close to you had heart problems, didn't they?" shrewd guesswork.

Getting the sort of hits that a stage medium gets does not count as proper proof.

Again, there are many ways of doing the same thing that don't have anything to do with being psychic.

Proper proof would be independently tested, with repeatable results.

As I said before, NO medium EVER has passed a proper test when the possibilty of cheating obtaining good results by means other than psychic ability has been taken away.

Mrschuff - why don't any of the real mediums go for the Randi million?it would be a huge coup for whoever won it and they could give the money to charity ?

I used to watch Crossing Over with John Edward and always thought he seemed very good.

when you go to a spiritualist church it is free and when you go in the say if you get picked just answer yes or no dont say anything that can give clues, i have been and seen some shocking ones, like a woman saying ive got a man here for a woman in this area of the room pointing to part of the room with 20 women, but also some amazing readings, my dh wants to believe but he cant see past it being rubbish, I think if you dont believe it you never will, even if you got a reading that rang true you would find logical reasoning behind it

I am still trying to decide what I think of it all.
I went to a spiritualist church a few times, just to get a feel of what it was all about.
The strangest things happened, it could all be chance, but was really weird.
We were asked to do some gentle meditation, and were left to see what happened. I had my eyes closed and had the strangest feeling like my mind was being dragged over to someone else in the room.
As I looked at her, 2 names just popped into my head, not overly common names (Trevor and Terry) and she said she knew them.
The leader of the group asked me to ask the spirits what they wanted to share, so I sat back, closed my eyes and tried to ask. I had this really bright 'vision' of lots of colourful fish. I told them what I'd seen and this woman (who new Trevor and Terry) said that she was mesmerized by fish and she was also a pieces.
Later on, I got a 'sense' of someone with her (I sound mental don't I?) i told her what I thought I was getting and she said "that's my mum" I told her it was female, tall, slim-ish, short, red, curly hair and wearing a long yellow dress.
I didn't get anything else or any message for her, but I came away feeling really odd.

i still don't know what I think, I'd like to believe, butnot sure.

There's a good analysis of one of John Edward's rubbish readings here.

There are lots of allegations that his shows are also heavily edited to miss out most of the random stuff ("I'm hearing a B, no a P, maybe it's a T, could be an E...") that he throws out and that nobody picks up on. In other words, he's a cold reader.

John Edward is a very good example of "shotgunning" - throwing out hundreds of bits of information (he talks at an incredible speed), knowing that at least one statement will ring a bell with someone.

... and yes, TV programmes are heavily edited in the medium's favour.

several generations of my family had some sort of 'gift'. I only discovered this in recent years.

I have this gift too, I don't know how i would categorise it. I get very strong feelings about people when I first meet them, I get strong feelings in certain places. I don't hear things, and have had what I considered to be messages - only a few and on two occassions for people i knew only through internet forums. They were vivid dreams. I told these people about the dreams and there were symbols in them, very specific things which had meaning for them.

I have watched John Edward, Derek Acorah et al and mostly laughed through their shows at how vague everything they say is.

My sister saw a medium, came back with notes detailing stuff which we thought was rubbish - and then had two pieces of specific information confirmed when we started looking at military records.

I have told a few select friends about my gift, i cannot contact the dead at will or channel messages for people. I'm very sceptical of people who make a living out of this. I'd like to develop my skill but haven't yet found anyone i trust to help me with this.

queenrollo

I know of two very good psychic mediums in the north who run classes and psychic development. If you would like their names pm me.

I have never been able to contact the dead at will, in the nicest way possible, I feel that I am more 'used' when I am at the right place and time.

I don't feel that either TJ Higgs or Lisa Williams use the 'I'm getting a P no a T no a G' thing. I have never done it myself, in fact I can say that I have never got a name or a letter. I may get a lot of things for example, someones' physical appearance, job, family circumstances, emtotions (were they warm and friendly, or quiet and reserved etc) their hobbies and the circumstances and cause of death.

There are rafts of fakes out there, more than I realised. I would agree that cold reading, research, shotgunning and other techniques are used. But I know mediums that have spent years, sometimes decades, training in things like meditation, energy work, psychic protection, shamanism, obviously occult studies and have developed their skills. Why the hell would they bother if they can just use faking techniques?

The Randi question puzzles me. I don't understand why none of the 650 or so applicants have succeeded in a test that the applicant themselves designed. Yet if you were a faker there is no way you would agree to a test where you couldn't use your faking skills, you would have to be very stupid and it would be career suicide, no matter what damage control you did.

So, as a believer it is bugging the hell out of me that I see proof of the paranormal, but can't make other people see it or prove it apparently, via Randi test.

There are several reasons why people apply for, and then fail, the million dollar challenge. Some people's claimed abilities are so vague (or hazardous to the health of the applicant) that they aren't really testable. Randi used to publish a selection of the correspondence he got and some of the applicants were absolute fruit-loops. Such people rarely get past the application stage.

Second there are the few more well-known agents of the paranormal who have applied and who think that they can fake their way through the test. They are then exposed as fakes as it's difficult to get away with sleight-of-hand and other tricks when you've got an experienced stage magician watching what you're doing. There was one teenage girl who was famous in Russia who claimed she could see even if she was blindfolded. Strangely her abilities completely disappeared when a proper blindfold was used rather than the usual one that left a tiny gap down the side of her nose.

And third there are the people who really truly believe they have the supernatural abilities they claim to hold. They don't of course, but they genuinely believe they do. Dowsers are a classic example of this. In every single properly conducted test of dowsing it fails to produce results any better than random chance. Yet the rest of the dowsing community will claim that those who were tested weren't "real" dowsers but were fakes, or that the test wasn't properly conducted (even though, prior to the test, the applicants were in full agreement), or that the dowsers were accidentally picking up on underground rivers etc.

Some people simply convince themselves that they hold these abilities and will always find some reason to ignore the reams of people who have claimed identical powers but who, when properly tested, cannot actually do what they claim to be able to do.

LOL @ the dowsers - there was a thing on telly a while ago where they were testing dowsers. When they all inevitably failed, they had 101 excuses reasons why, from "Well of course normally we're just looking for water and in the test, the water was in plastic bottles" to one old boy chuckling and saying "Well, it's him up there having a laugh, isn't it?"

Right, so God made you fail just for chuckles. Uh huh.....

They'd all agreed that the test was fair beforehand, and all were 100% confident that they'd pass with flying colours. One woman looked close to tears... "I just don't understand it. I've been doing this for 25 years".

Not one of them was prepared to even entertain the possibility that they might not have some wonderful paranormal "gift", even when it was plain that they hadn't.

Re: Snorbs' last paragraph: it's the old line though isn't it... test a medium/dowser/whatever, they fail, believer says "Yes well THAT one was obviously a fake... but real ones DO exist. Test another "real" one, THAT one fails, believer says "Well, yes, THAT one was a fake... but real ones DO exist...."

And so it goes on.

Does this mean that I should stop doing the my seeing while blindfolded trick and my psychokinesis with acrylic wires attached to my hands? Damn...

Have tarot readers been tested?

No idea, Chuff, but Tarot is even more vague than most woo, isn't it?

"Ooh, you've got the death card dear. No, no - it isn't necessarily a bad one. It just signifies change. You might have once moved house, or be going through a house move now, or you might move one day. Or else you might die. But your Great Great Grandmother will meet you if you do. Your Great Great Grandmother has passed over, hasn't she dear? Yes, I knew that. The cards never lie, you see"

Tarot reading is just fortune telling with props. All you have to do is:
a) Use cold-reading techniques to make it seem like you know stuff you "shouldn't" know even if all you're actually doing is telling them what they've just let slip to you,
b) Rely on confirmation bias so that people remember the "hits" and skim over the many misses,
c) Encourage personal recommendations as things like "Ooh, I'll have to recommend you to my friend Sandra, she's had so much trouble what with her mother dying recently and her eldest's run-ins with the police" can give you such a valuable head-start, and
d) keep the predictions nice and vague.

Bob's yer uncle!

No, no no!
Tarot is very specific. It would depend where the death card was - what position in the spread. If you get it in the place for 'near future' for instance and the spread is about relationships, then it is fairly clear that either the client's relationship is ending, or there is going to be drastice change. Which of these would depend on other cards in the spread. I would be inclined to see the death card as always signifying the end of a cycle. I would then draw another card to add to it, if this card was, for instance, the hermit, which represents isolating oneself in order to regroup and think things through, then that to me clearly says the relationship is ending.

People who know very little about tarot always say 'but it's so vague isn't it?' No it's not, it is very very very specific. You are not just pulling cards randomly and reading the card, you use a card spread in order to give each card something to be 'about,' otherwise you will get a meaningless jumble and a puzzled client. If it was a load of bollocks, then you would get hits no higher than chance and a semi puzzled client at best. In my experience that doesn't happen. I am aware of people trying to 'make things fit' and I discourage that. I prefer them not to tell me anything and just pick, say career or relationships or a general reading. I prefer it if my clients say nothing at all and then we debrief at the end of the reading.

But again there are poor tarot readers out there. If I felt a reading was anything less than bloody brilliant and very accurate, I would refund the clients money, simple as. Would you like to know how many times I've felt the need to refund money? Twice. And yes I've done more than 3 readings!

There is no point me arguing my case is there? I don't mind. I just don't want you to think I am some money grabbing idiot trying to fleece people. i know that there are plenty out there, but I'm not one of them. Ah well. I don't have a problem with people holding different beliefs or disagreeing with me, in fact I find a bit of debate and critiquing methods refreshing. Better than talking to people on a woo forum and unicorns, Atlantis and the Ascended masters

Well MrsChufftheMuff, your tarot-reading skills could win you a million bucks. Have at it!