How schools will stay open without priority teacher vaccinations?

[CadburysCrunchie]

I'm not a teacher, but I am wondering how our children's schools will stay open (and we can continue going to work) without teaching staff being given some sort of priority for the covid vaccination?

My child's school has already completely shut for two weeks in November due to rapidly increasing cases, then reopened, and now with 3 days notice is changing to home learning next week due to staff shortages (people being sick, shielding, or having to self-isolate for 2 weeks). The school thinks it is likely the school will have to go to home learning again next term due to all the staff shortages.

If you are not a keyworker so that your child can request to stay in school, how can you go to work outside the home (no home working alternative) if you have no childcare?? What about children who don't have access to a computer etc?

I don't know if this is allowed, but I am going to link to a petition I have seen: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/554316 - Admin, please remove this if the link is not allowed.

YABU - You should stop worrying
YANBU - You are right to worry about this.

Yes, that's exactly what I thought they were saying. I haven't misunderstood GuyFawkes. I quoted them because you said no-one was suggesting teachers should go before other at risk roles vital to the functioning of society (look back at our earlier exchange of posts ) and Guy Fawkes has clearly suggested that, as they think only teachers and retail should go before everyone else in the non-vulnerable/elderly group

That was to sherry by the way

@noblegiraffe

How would fewer people getting covid in the first place not count as ‘reducing spread’?

Fair point! Can't spread it if you don't have it.

[quote 2020out]@canigooutyet

Where do you get that info on the vaccine from? I've not read much about it yet.[/quote]
Here are just a couple of links go to

www.gov.uk/government/publications/priority-groups-for-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-advice-from-the-jcvi-2-december-2020/priority-groups-for-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-advice-from-the-jcvi-2-december-2020

www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulatory-approval-of-pfizer-biontech-vaccine-for-covid-19

www.pfizer.co.uk/coronavirus-updates

They don’t seem to back up your claim that the vaccine only lessens symptoms. Maybe you should read them?

Blimey you're a quick reader to go through all the links in around 4 minutes.

I went to the important bit about efficacy.

How do you explain that out of 170 on the trial who caught covid, 162 didn’t have the vaccine and only 8 had if you think the only effect of the vaccine is to lessen symptoms and doesn’t actually protect you against catching it?

What do you think 95% effective means when describing a vaccine?

@noblegiraffe I think they followed up for symptomatic covid. Thus if those on the treatment arm were asymptomatic or had very mild symptoms they probably wouldn’t have been tested. Therefore we can’t conclude that it reduced infections, we don’t know basically

More about the effectiveness and why even after having the vaccine, you still have to SD and all the rest.

www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-vaccine/art-20484859

They also weren't claims. They were questions. Questions that get regularly asked on MN.

Those who are CEV and CV will most likely be included in round one, providing they can as with like all Vaccines, not everyone can have it.

So how would giving the vaccine to healthy people when there is still that small chance of getting CV help to keep schools open? There is no data yet to say whether or not those who have been vaccinated will get long CV or not.

There is still not enough data to say they cannot pass it along.

And from the good ol' beeb 5 days ago

www.bbc.com/news/explainers-54880084

We do not know if the vaccine stops you catching and spreading the virus or just stops you from getting ill. We also don't know how protective the vaccine is in different age groups.

Ok, cant you said

“How will a vaccine that seems to only lesson symptoms help keep schools open?”

So you’ve taken the idea that 8 people in the vaccinated group and 162 people in the unvaccinated group got covid means that the other 154 (or whatever) people in the vaccinated group who should have got covid actually did get covid but didn’t get ill. All of them. And posted that as the most likely explanation instead of the much weaker ‘we don’t know but this is one possible explanation’?

I don’t think that’s responsible posting.

But for those who do get CV after the vaccination, they experience less/milder symptoms, if any at all. So would still require time off from school.
Same with some of the side effects from getting the vaccine, these might also require people to take a day or so off.

Pfizer also say that masks, sding etc to continue as normal, which isn't possible as you know in many schools to begin with.

My bad for the wrong choice of wording.

If you believe I posted irresponsibly report my posts to mnhq.

Also report those who claim things are covered up and we have to take their word for it.

From experience, MNHQ prefer misleading claims to be robustly challenged rather than deleted.

The claim that the vaccine seems to only lessen symptoms is pretty much the worst possible reading of the data.

Here is the thing, saying teachers should get it is not saying that others shouldn't. Its not an either/or.

But if schools staying open is such a great priority then the government should do a damn sight better job at making them a safer place to be.

People talk about retail but the average person will spend at most an hour in a shop and 95% of that is not at a till with a worker. I'd bet well over 75% are wearing masks. People have to queue, numbers are limited. And all the staff will be in masks. Many have plastic walls surrounding the tills as well as the masks.

In a (secondary) school you spent 1-2 hours with a class of 20-25 pupils who are virtually adults (so this children don't get it or spread it doesn't really apply). This is in rooms that were assessed safe for 6-7 adults. But are fine for 20+ 17 year olds... The pupils don't wear masks in classes. Most don't wear them in corridors (they are supposed to but we are also not allowed to sanction them if they don't). The whole idea of masks isn't so much that it protects you when you wear it, but that others are protected from you... so one teacher in a mask vs 1000 pupils seems a little foolish to think that in any way protects the teacher.
Then there are the 'cleaning' routines, 6-8 classes a day, in a room with PCs and pupils are supposed to wipe their own machine and sure they do it but you can be damn sure for some its the most cursory wipe over possible.

And if anyone wants to tell me how I can help a pupils with their programming code without going over to them at their PC (and staying there for up to 10 minutes sometimes) I'd love to know as I wasn't supplied with binoculars and sadly the LA didn't ever get around to buying monitoring software so I could see their screen from my desk.

I don't want schools to close and I'm not too fussed about a vaccine for me personally but they really need to stop lying about the risks, infection and transmission rates in schools.

@canigooutyet

The thing is, as far as I understand, you could be right. It's just not very likely and not the basis on which the UK is working right now. It could be the case that the 154 people in the vaccinated group caught covid and were asymptomatic because the vaccine prevents symptoms rather than preventing catching covid. I believe this is possible because the links above suggest that they didn't systematically test participants.

It seems unlikely that people will die of covid if they're asymptomatic (granted, it's not impossible given covid is a bit unpredictable generally).

Long covid appears to be aftereffects of symptoms, so again, it seems unlikely that this will develop in asymptomatic people. (I'm not an expert, granted)

And this whole argument is not really to do with prioritisation of school staff anyway. If all the vaccine does is reduce symptoms, it's probably not worthwhile financially to vaccinate anyone except the very old and very vulnerable, in a similar way we do for flu.

But it seems the current programme is a little more optimistic, or else we wouldn't be vaccinating NHS and care staff either.

Schools are important. Schools are important. Schools are important.

But fuck the teachers.

P.S. And I say that as a teacher.

@CallmeAngelGabriel

Schools are important. Schools are important. Schools are important.

But fuck the teachers.

You must be working in a school that has not been hit much by Covid! You wouldn’t have said this if you did. Have you had to cover three lessons extra on average a week because of staff having to isolate?! Thus, coming into contact with an extra 90-100 more students each week?! Have you had to teach a lesson to 20 kids in a classroom while simultaneously teaching 12 kids at home via teams- both groups of which are asking you questions, showing you work, asking for help etc etc.... And this is in a school that has had relatively fewer cases than most, in an area of the uk that also has less cases than most others! Can’t imagine what it’s like in some of the tier 3 schools!

@finniesmummy, Sorry, but I think you've misunderstood. I was being sarcastic.

@finniesmummy

Have you had to cover three lessons extra on average a week because of staff having to isolate?!

Are you in an academy?
This keeps happening to me as well, loosing all my PPA each week for emergency cover. Was thinking of raising it but as academy not sure we can?

@CallmeAngelGabriel haha, sorry. I thought you may have been but then the extra comment ‘p.s and I say that as a teacher’ threw me off! I apologise....

@OverTheRainbow88 yes i am in an academy. Been an absolute nightmare! Don’t think we can say anything really. I’m also mentoring a PGCE student so those 3 extra lessons mean no PPA time whatsoever for me 😞

I hit 'send' before I realised too late it could be construed that way.
Sorry.