Schools reopening - Right to decide as a parent

[DocMia]

Boris Johnson : Parents should have the right whether to send their children back to school in September. - Sign the Petition! chng.it/N76dqb4y via @UKChange

Shallowsubmarine I shouldn’t have to de-register my children. There should be no fines. I’m not expecting any help with learning.

or if so vulnerable they can not go out, medically absent

What do you mean?

No child has been admitted to hospital for COVID since June.

Good. Probably no teachers or other school staff either. Hopefully not relatives of any child or staff member either. We don't have information that detailed, because our government hasn't prioritised getting schools back safely. June - now has been very different in schools, and it has felt safe for staff (and children, and parents). Back to 'normal' will not feel safe, and probably won't be safe either.

If you want to keep your child at home, then crack on. But you shouldnt' be expecting the school to be responsible or accountable for your child's learning. That's not fair on the school, the teachers, or the rest of the class. Even if you deregister and home school, chances are 'we'll' be having to put work into catching them up when they come back anyway. Aside from the obviously benefits to the child of doing that, we'll so it partly because our own professional abilities, our pay, our whole school community, are judged by the progress of the children.

If you don't like that last bit, then that's what to write to your MP about.

I'm sort of glad that the massive failings in our education system are being brought to light through this mess. I bet everyone forgets them pretty damn quickly though, and nothing will change.

I think something to be aware of for the next academic year, is a loss of school staff across the board - for lots of reasons. Trying to keep up with the guidance, the expectation of teachers, our 'normal' job expectations, and our own health, will push many into resigning at October half term.

Very bothered and willing to put in effort here. Just extremely clinically vulnerable.

Shallowsubmarine I shouldn’t have to de-register my children. There should be no fines. I’m not expecting any help with learning.

But if you don't deregister your child, then someone else is accountable for their learning, not you. According to our systems for judging schools and individual teachers. That's not fair.

By enabling parents to simply not bother to send in their children, these are the kids that are at risk. De-registering the child, or if so vulnerable they can not go out, medically absent, gives the parents that option without providing the negligent or abusive parent the chance to just not bother with their kids.

As a teacher - and therefore aware of how many children are vulnerable in terms of negligent / abusive parents, even though that might not be something that other parents in the class are aware of - this is the 'unintended consequence' of what OP is asking for.

The children we were most worried about during lockdown were not the children so vulnerable that social services could essentially demand that they attend in-school childcare. We were worried about that much more numerous 'grey area' - the children who don't meet the threshold for social services' involvement (which can be astonishingly high, especially for neglect), and who we could offer places to but not force them to be taken up.

These - the children of educationally disengaged parents, who will often be struggling with their own issues of mental or physical ill-health or disability, poverty, poor and crowded housing - are the children who are at risk of being kept at home as 'the easy option'.

Personally, I think we are going about this the wrong way round. Those children advised by paediatricians to be still at risk should fall under a much-boosted 'hospital education team' [not sure of the current term], and then safety measures in school should be made much more robust, so that risks in that context fall and parents have greater confidence.

Shallowsubmarine I shouldn’t have to de-register my children. There should be no fines. I’m not expecting any help with learning.

But why do you want to 'occupy' a school place that you have no intention of using?

Is it so the school can claim the funding?

Or is it because you want to block anyone else from taking the place - you want to 'reserve' it until you choose to take it back?

children who are at risk of being kept at home as 'the easy option'

Agree strongly. We managed to get a lot of these in, but had to go and collect one of them ourselves from home.

I hope to goodness all our children are safe come October and there hasn’t been a rise in cases. There’s a lot unknown about this virus and there isn’t enough evidence to go on to see how this will play out in schools due to the March closures. Stay safe all!!!!

It took me 11 weeks to get one of them in - and I felt like I had won the lottery on the day they came in.

or if so vulnerable they can not go out, medically absent

What do you mean?

ie treated the same as other serious illnesses that mean a child cannot be at school - but that of course means the school cannot meet the needs at all, and is not "Little Jimmy is at a slightly higher risk if they catch Covid, the same as that's not enough during a normal flu season", it would need actual doctor advice to not go into school, which is not a parental choice and is not simply the previous "shielding list".

I can’t imagine the pressure it would put on EWO staff would be enormous.

I hope to goodness all our children are safe come October

Let me just correct that for you: I hope to goodness all our children and school staff are safe come October.

Meanwhile, in Australia, which had a much better starting position going into winter than we do - school closures:

www.education.vic.gov.au/about/programs/health/Pages/closures.aspx

We've got work to do on keeping ourselves to ourselves over the next 3 weeks. Or, for most of the population, we've got work to do making the most of the '£10 to catch covid' deal, and finding a holiday to go on.

@ohthegoats

No child has been admitted to hospital for COVID since June.

Good. Probably no teachers or other school staff either. Hopefully not relatives of any child or staff member either. We don't have information that detailed, because our government hasn't prioritised getting schools back safely. June - now has been very different in schools, and it has felt safe for staff (and children, and parents). Back to 'normal' will not feel safe, and probably won't be safe either.

If you want to keep your child at home, then crack on. But you shouldnt' be expecting the school to be responsible or accountable for your child's learning. That's not fair on the school, the teachers, or the rest of the class. Even if you deregister and home school, chances are 'we'll' be having to put work into catching them up when they come back anyway. Aside from the obviously benefits to the child of doing that, we'll so it partly because our own professional abilities, our pay, our whole school community, are judged by the progress of the children.

If you don't like that last bit, then that's what to write to your MP about.

I'm sort of glad that the massive failings in our education system are being brought to light through this mess. I bet everyone forgets them pretty damn quickly though, and nothing will change.

I think something to be aware of for the next academic year, is a loss of school staff across the board - for lots of reasons. Trying to keep up with the guidance, the expectation of teachers, our 'normal' job expectations, and our own health, will push many into resigning at October half term.

We are in a pandemic. An "unprecedented" one as everyone keeps saying.

I am only too happy to be responsible and accountable for my child's learning for the hopefully short period that this is needed.

But I also need for them to be able to go back to their own schools in the medium term.

If we have the option for deregistering for half a term at a time, and then returning to the familiar environment and friends, I'd be happy with that.

If there was not an issue of a) poor safety arrangements and b) particular clinical risk, I would not want this.

My kids have very good attendance and excellent educational records.

I believe in picking your battles, this one is worth fighting.

What about vulnerable children, or those risk of harm. Very easy for a parent to say ‘Tommy isn’t in today due to cv and we’re concerned of transmition’ also read ‘tommy got beaten black and blue because mummy’s new boyfriend is an abusive wanker and battered him because he spilt yoghurt on the floor’

If you don’t want your child to attend school, de-register them and take the responsibility for their learning.

So if we have a large resurgence, Tommy is liable to be stuck at home for an indefinite period with social workers unable to visit. Much better for Tommy if there are sensible plans, social distancing, masks blended learning etc. so that schools aren't overwhelmed and he is getting some support from services.

There are some changes to shielding for DC

Right now it is paused for everyone (Wales soon), and DC should return to school.

The paediatric list is being reviewed. Some DC will be permanently deshielded, others will remain on the shield list (so might be recalled to shielding if local lockdowns include this step, and therefore cannot attend school)

And some might need stricter shielding. But those are DC - such as those in most critical bits of cancer treatment or with very significantly weakened immune systems or fragile heart conditions - who would be missing school for a while anyhow. Their places are not removed, and the local authority should be providing home tutoring - though they might need to provide online tutoring services as F2F contact wouid be risky.

It's that middle group - paused shielded, might have to miss school when disease rates worrying - who need additional measures. Online or posted work from the school might be the best solution. Yes it's an extra task for teachers, but supporting a DC who has to miss a lengthy period of school for medical reasons is something that happens anyhow (for non-covid reasons) so when it's only a few pupils every now and again, I think it wouid be do-able. Those pupils should not be at any risk of losing their school place.

@Flynn999

What about vulnerable children, or those risk of harm. Very easy for a parent to say ‘Tommy isn’t in today due to cv and we’re concerned of transmition’ also read ‘tommy got beaten black and blue because mummy’s new boyfriend is an abusive wanker and battered him because he spilt yoghurt on the floor’

If you don’t want your child to attend school, de-register them and take the responsibility for their learning.

I'm not insensitive, but this is riding a horse the wrong way around. More and more in these conversations I see that minority needs (be it SEN, shielding, poverty, abuse, neglect) seem to be trumping everything. I would suggest that the conversations should be more nuanced:

1. education is not childcare. Let's separate them.
2. Primary/secondary. Very different needs, settings, options
3. "normal" / SEN (pls. don't start on the normal - i have to use a word.... and if you want, you get what I mean)
4. vulnerable, shielding in household/not vulnerable
5. has access to online/doesn't have access
6. teacher assessed to be in need of more help/kids thriving in online setting

7....

there are more slices that we could/should look at.

There can be no blanket solutions and looking at it in b&W won't take us anywhere. What is good for the majority is fine... but let's have a system that looks at the non-majority and caters for them as well. Balanced and well thought through. But let's not tailor the system to favour any minority because we are trying to be overly PC.

I think the REAL ISSUE is that gov doesn't know the first thing about Service design (or logic or common sense for that matter): Define the problem! And it starts with a list like above (obv. more comprehensive :))

@herecomesthsun

So if we have a large resurgence, Tommy is liable to be stuck at home for an indefinite period with social workers unable to visit. Much better for Tommy if there are sensible plans, social distancing, masks blended learning etc. so that schools aren't overwhelmed and he is getting some support from services.

How the hell is it safer for Tommy if mum decides to deregister so she doesnt have to worry about bruises anyday this term ?

Precovid tommy's mum was just as likely to phone in that Tommy had sickness bug as using the covid reason now. Some situations are shit, but they were shit before covid and they will be shit after covid is resolved. But children and staff catching covid and becoming very unwell/deaths will not improve things for Tommy. Schools suddenly shutting due to cases growing will not improve things for Tommy.

The answer isnt to put every child at risk of covid, the answer is to fund social services, cahms and other needed services properly so that those who need this support get it.

I am not arguing that children should deregister. I am arguing the opposite

Scientific remodelling of likely resurgence from return to school from a medical journal in the Lancet stable

www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(20)30250-9/fulltext

@herecomesthsun

I am not arguing that children should deregister. I am arguing the opposite

Yes - i realised after posting this was meant for the poster who first mentioned Tommy. Sorry for the error

@countryroses

Can't think of another country in the world right now which is threatening children with fines and deregistering. Welcome to 2020 England. What an embarrassment.

Agree with this. We're a ridiculous place at times, in policy terms many of the things we do are counterproductive and futile.

I do get so frustrated with (little) England.

Ah ok @sirfredfredgeorge

Do you know. I just wish there would be some consideration for just how hard this is.

I have a child with a very rare condition, his paed deemed him very high risk due to a combination of scarred lungs, previous pneumonias, asthma, chronic gastric problems and a hole in the heart. He has learning disabilities and behavioural issues which means he will struggle with social distancing and hygeine. His bowel issues means he needs help with toileting. As his genetic condition is very rare, he has had unpredictable reactions to viruses and infections in the past. We have had several stays in hospital with Drs scratching their heads, wondering why sats aren't coming up...wondering why heart rate is so high...wondering what causes the bleeding lesions he gets in his inflamed stomach lining.

The last communication from paeds was to shield until the shielding was paused. We haven't heard anything further.

I have spoken to school, they tell us that without a letter specifying he needs to stay off, then we will be fined if he doesn't come in.

I just feel incredibly worried about it all. I shouldn't come on here really, it just makes me feel upset that people are so dismissive of those of us who have, imo, fairly legitimate worries.