For those who feel that children should go back to school ASAP.

[Holymama]

As I'm new on here, I'm not sure whether this is OK or not to share but I wanted to get the word out to parents. I am a psychotherapist and am particularly concerned about the mental health effects of lockdown on kid's mental health. I realise that this is a frightening time for all of us, but I fear that we are not balancing the risk of COVID infection of kids (pretty low) versus the effects on their mental health, and life chances, of lockdown and not going to school (potentially pretty bad). There is a pressure group called Usforthem that has been started by 3 parents to press the government to speed up school returns. If you have similar concerns, I would recommend looking at it. It also has a petition you can sign.
www.usforthem.co.uk

As you rightly said most children are low risk from Covid 19 however what is less clear is the risk of them transmitting the virus to others "Researchers in Germany recently determineded^ that "children may be as infectious as adults." They cautioned against reopening schools too soon. "* and the risk they pose to their family and of course school staff.
"Just a week after one-third of Frenchch^ schoolchildren went back to school in an easing of the coronavirus lockdown, there has been a flurry of about 70 Covid-1919^ cases linked to schools."
"Beijing shut all its schools again on Wednesday as the city reported 31 new coronavirus cases, with authorities in the Chinese capital rushing to curb an outbreak linked to a wholesale food market."

Family gatherings, which is acknowledge as being good for mental health is still restricted in England, so children can spend the day with their teacher but not with their grandparents or other close relatives ...

The U.K. has the second highest death rate so do you really think it's safe to fully open schools no matter how desirable it is to get children back in school

Our (private) primary school has all kids back since this week, and the effect has been so incredibly positive. And this is for kids who had plenty of online learning, group work and communication. Its almost criminal that most kids won’t be able to experience this.

Hi, we've had some reports about this thread and we're just moving it to the Petitions board now.
Thanks.

Is there any evidence that children will suffer as a result of not going to school? Mine are very happy at the moment, much happier overall than before schools closed.

www.rcpch.ac.uk/sites/default/files/2020-06/open_letter_re_schools_reopening_2020-06-17.pdf

yes there is evidence

There's not just kids in schools though are there? Unless you're happy to stop social distancing for everyone right now? Which is irrelevant really as the scientists and government who have more info than you are not happy to do that. I say this as a parent of a 7 and 10 year old, I'd love them to be back, when it's safe for everyone

The letter that's published isn't asking for a speed up. It's asking for a clear plan. I can get behind that

This is the most useful literature review I have found on infection and transmission in children. It seems clear that children are less likely to get infected, what is not fully known is how much they transmit COVID, but this seems to suggest that their transmission rates are lower than adults. I feel that from the point of view of children's education and physical and emotional wellbeing we now need to start thinking in terms of managed risk:
dontforgetthebubbles.com/the-missing-link-children-and-transmission-of-sars-cov-2/

It's lovely you are petitioning for the /your children and others their's. Support your right to free speech and action.

You don't speak for my children and some of my friends children who are loving homeschool! Having a brilliant time- lots of interaction virtually with their friends, go out each day with a selected friend to exercise, some funny SD birthday parties outside 3m apart each!- they video chat whilst doing online maths & science together , watch Dramaplays online with mum after work, we bake and do crafts together, the poetry assignments, ..

And for me, who is in extremely vulnerable shielding group and two of my DC who are vulnerable, but not shielding group- which Tbf has high criteria- schools aren't set up yet to make it possible to have safe social distancing. Ours has long narrow corridors. They'd be in closed spaces sharing whatever

We don't want a return to school yet, we want the choice and good online learning

My children are horrified at the thought they could bring coronavirus home to put their Mum in hospital. They don't want to be unable to cuddle me, have me care for them, tuck them in, to have to stay out of the kitchen and a rota for bathroom of disinfecting after every use, if they had to go into school. They don't want their lives at home to be curtailed as that would affect them psychologically 100x worse.

We are loving our safe bubble which school wouldn't be, no matter what they're claiming it would. Several of my friends are UK teachers/deputy Heads and they are exasperated that in their experience it isn't possible to safe social distance in school even with reduced classes. One has already caught coronavirus at school. One asymptomatic child is all it took to infect multiple classmates and a teacher

nurses and other nhs staff go to work, come home in a change of clothes, shower and then family life carries on as normal.
this is achievable in education.

That's very different. Nhs workers are adults not children and they aren't relying on any extremely vulnerable shielding person to care for them when they get home. They are wearing PPE at work, regularly hand sterilising and ought be offered tests. They also don't try to hug their co workers, pick their noses and bite their fingers at work, forget themselves and jostle others during the day. School is far more crowded than hospitals currently are in U.K. or GP surgeries. Most GP surgeries are closed to visitors except by backdoor routes carefully arranged into sterilised areas, and GPs & nurses, MH teams and other professionals - except wonderful carers- are visiting very few people in the community unless absolutely essential.

You can shield properly at home if you are adults. Perfectly capable of disinfecting after yourself and sitting separately in rooms. It's impossible to expect that of children, unhealthy. Many NHS workers who live with an extremely vulnerable shielding group person have moved out temporarily. Shielding NhS workers have been offered WFH duties if possible. We rely on NHs workers, people won't die if all children don't return to school quickly. They're not keeping anyone alive by being in school and it's increasing risks for everyone at a time it's not quite safe enough so the govmt is waiting and reviewing. School is a crowd if all children return. Schools don't have the facilities or room to take same measures. Teachers don't disinfect and wear gloves and face masks like NhS workers do and patients are being asked currently to do in hospitals. It's not the same to compare.

But children are suffering from not being in school.

Perhaps not your children @Sparticuscaticus, as far as you know. but plenty of other children and families are.

I agree. The ill effects from children not being at school are enormous.
The risks of being at school are tiny. Look at the things we now know - that children are not super-spreaders, that asymptomatic people are low risk for spreading the virus, and the evidence from Sweden (where they kept schools for under-16s open) is that teachers are at no more risk of getting covid than anyone else who is still working.
@Sparticuscaticusa that's fine then - you keep you kids off - take the responsibility to plan your own lessons if that is your choice. Other children are suffering, those who were behind at school anyway, those with parents who work full time and cannot also support their learning, those with parents who aren't able to support their learning for other reasons. those who don't have jollies with other families but have no-one to play with, those in conflict ridden homes where school was a refuge, those locked with an abuser or watching a parent being abused, those who relied on safeguarding at school to pick up issues.
I don't think they should be left to suffer to extend your jolly time, or because you don't want to put the work in to plan homeschooling yourself.

Ugh.
You are making sweeping assumptions
About jollies and 'other children suffering'
I work AND am homeschooling my children
No 'jollies here' but we are ensuring we enjoy our time & use it productively

None of you are thinking practically about ALL children returning in U.K., only about getting your children back to school so everyone must! Even if another 2-3 months out might save thousands of lives . My life doesn't matter to you or that of my children's or all the other vulnerable disabled parents & children out there ?

Nor did you read what I said.
It shouldn't be a forced return for ALL children.

Better to have some homeschooling for longer and some in school , especially if their parents can't cope or feel their children aren't coping at home, or are falling behind or struggling educationally or psychologically. That can cover your children, if you choose them to return.
There is a large proportion of children doing well homeschooling and not suffering
We are one of so many families I know jogging along fantastically well

There is provision for vulnerable children to go in already 'refuge from home' but educational dept isn't enforcing it

Provision for For Key worker children, setting up slow restart for Children in key GCSE year 10 and year 6s. Some schools could make arrangements for other children struggling academically to go in or for Dave to face online support and classes which is being underused

There are risks . Sweden is not 100% comparable to U.K. , we are unlikely to have same design of schools or resources thrown at them
My friends are teachers - feeding back how risky it is and how overwhelmed and sacrificial they feel the government is treating them with poor planning and facilities and that's for a partial return not a full school return!

I'm just pointing out that the government is reviewing it and making careful decisions

So there are different viewpoints . Which is what petitions is about. The stance is to accept other people have different experiences and perspectives than you, outside your world that might include extremely vulnerable health.

I agree. My kids are fed up but fine. Others will never recover from this gap in their education. The most vulnerable will fall behind at the fastest rate.

It’s a national disgrace

@Sparticuscaticus

Its not an assumption about other children suffering, its a fact. Nor is it just about getting 'our' children back. I think you must be confusing your motivation for the status quo because you think its great, with our motivations. There is a lot of suffering out there outside your cosy bubble of baking, crafts and Dramaplays with Mummy. The rise in calls to the NSPCC helpline is dramatic. And that will just be those who can safely make calls from home. Many kids won't be able to. Have you heard the experts say that this lockdown is going to set back attempts to improve social mobility by ten years? I have been talking with teachers in deprived areas and they are desperately worried about what their kids are going through during this lockdown.

Keep your children keep at children at home if you want, or that is safest for you, no-one is arguing with that. But all children should have the chance to be back in school properly. It is a national disgrace that we have treated our children so shoddily.

I agree. I'm signing. So is everyone I know and have sent it to.

We need to make provision for shielding children or children with shielding parents to access the same education, but it shouldn't be the case that if all children can't return than none can.
Mine are struggling enormously in lockdown. They are both deeply unhappy in their own way and further time away from school will be horrific.
Tbh I don't know any other parent who feels differently so I always get a shock on mumsnet....

alittlelower I haven't made any assumptions, it's a childish tactic to just throw back what I pointed out you were doing! 🙄

If you read what I wrote, using your uninterrupted education, that there should be the choice and targeted gradual return to school, so that all children aren't forced to go back, but the ones who need to for various reasons. As not every child needs to- A plan which will be safest for everyone is best, the targeted return of current Govmt plan that most teachers aren't even keen on following! To prevent crowded full schools that won't be capable of being safe social distancing in a way no other service would agree to. Shops are limiting numbers in and out, schools should too. Hospital bays have been halved for wider distancing. A&E take your temperature before letting you through the door, deciding on hot COVID side or cold side... you can't do that in a school full of pupils!

Because the measure shouldn't be how many children die (bit late then), it's also how many others get unwell including groups that were needing to keep safe. You do realise extremely vulnerable group includes lots of parents & siblings too? .That to properly shield at home with others in household with close outside contact would be psychologically damaging to those very children.

Mortality is only one measure, increased life changing ongoing health damage after COVID infection is another that no research data is available on yet- it's too new and not being measured. But I am dealing with postviral impact as well in my job. It's not being routinely measured by any statistical analysis. Most people catching it aren't even being tested, only those so ill that they're admitted to hospital, in a care homes or select limited other groups. The statistics aren't accurate, huge underestimation of R rate.

It's really not difficult to fully understand my point - you simply don't (or shouldn't try to) speak for everyone by selecting out which bit of statistics you feel will best support your overgeneralised argument. It's a pandemic. 3 months out of school is a blip, not the end of the world. Stop putting so much pressure on children!

I suggested we look at the bigger picture not extrapolate from stakeholder statistics, that demanding a full return to school, something against current advice, for every school child - because you and a minority aren't coping, isn't thought at this stage to be a healthy national policy. Those needing school, should be offered places. Btw . Childline have a duty to pass on CP or child wellbeing concerns, including those children who rang them, into vulnerable group already noted as important to be offered spaces to attend school.

Think of the children?
Yes, please do think of the children and what this petition is demanding. Far too soon. We literally have 4-5 weeks left of term.

I disagree and am by far in a majority not the minority.
All 22 of our local schools have had little take up of offered return places.

I’m signing. There have been no Covid related admissions to hospitals within my local NHS trust since 31 May and currently just 11 Covid patients in the hospital (none in ICU). So community transmission rates must have fallen massively. Yet my children are still facing another 3 months off school and no holiday camps.

@freshdaced

but it shouldn't be the case that if all children can't return than none can.

That's exactly my point. It should be don't force all children to return for the sake of minority. We don't want to force full schools, it's unsafe for everyone. There aren't enough teachers to cover. Those that need or want to return should be able to contact school to request a return. The take up might be 20-50%. Perfect.

Schools could be doing online video teaching for all subjects- be you in school or home. Not 35 hours a week but a couple hours a day would be great, and continue with online (or paper sent) work.

Now that'd be a petition I would sign!

alittlelower

your cosy bubble of baking, crafts and Dramaplays with Mummy.
You say that in a derogatory way as if it's a bad thing!

You do know schools talk about a safe bubble too?! None of my children have ended up in hospital as a result. And me only twice and out again quickly nonCOVID related.

Yes- my DDs are using the cookery booklets school set for the term, we can't get all the ingredients when online delivery arrives but we use inventive substitutes sometimes from cupboard, not all work as well 😀 I have to bring my work laptop into kitchen to supervise and try not to let flour get on it...

Yes, we are watching the online access to NT plays English teacher set and they read the plays set- again following school curriculum. Wonderful to see the plays grateful to the kind theatres that have made this possible.

Yes- my DDs have done their Art, IT, science and DT set work, inventively at times using material found around our home and from outside.

Yes they are doing English comprehension, using whatsapp video groups with friends to muddle through Maths when they get stuck, or read to DGPs and cousins who are stuck in too100s miles away.

Each day they each go out for a cycle or walk with a friend, except for thundery days.

They've been doing extra stuff they want to do and having odd lazy days off because school stuff has become far more fun and relaxed.

Younger ones are doing simpler things, taking turns with laptop or my tablet and lots of drawing in and colouring and making stuff, that school sets or on brilliants school websites for littlies. Even BBC learning online via a fire stick in tv screen - brilliant invention/ and you tube learning videos.

Like any working mum I'm used to juggling. It's not easy, but we are all doing our bit to keep going.

I signed. I have children in years 10 and 12 and although they are keeping up with work set, it’s not the same as being in lessons, being taught face-to-face. But more importantly, I worry about all those pupils who are not keeping up for whatever reason. It’s desperately unfair and deeply inequitable. The government’s lack of planning is a fucking disgrace.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-17/will-missing-school-due-to-covid-19-matter-for-school-students/12154266

I think it would be more useful to develop a plan for delivering education in a pandemic than a plan for a return to pre-COVID models of schooling at the earliest opportunity.