Start believing genuine rape victims!

[Ajaysmith]

Rape convictions are 21% lower than all other criminal convictions (Office for National Statistics). False reports account of 4% of complaints (Home Office). Case collapse accounts for 0.15% per total prosecutions. However, there is still an assumption by the general public that the majority of victims lie. Those genuine victims complaining of rape, who are brave enough to enter the stand, where evidence is unequivocal, are then let down by juries still subscribing to rape myths. Please help address this weakness by signing this petition.

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=petition.parliament.uk/petitions/209573" target="_blank">https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/209573

It's for a jury to decide if they are 'genuine' rape victims.

And the reason for the low conviction rate (a link to the source of your claimed figures would have been nice) is that because of political pressure, too many prosecutions are being brought which lack evidence compelling enough to send a man to jail for several years and ruin his name for the rest of his life.

I think that the burden of proof needs to be on the man to prove that he had consent, not on the woman to prove that he didn't. I don't think that women should be thought to be walking around in a perpetual state of consenting to sex by default.

Just like for other crimes where there is no question that it happened, it's just whether that person had permission to do it - eg. fraud, theft, burglary - if someone confesses to taking my money, I don't have to prove that I didn't give them permission to take it, they have to prove that I did. I do give to charity, I have given to people on the street, why would I have given money to them? It's the same reasoning that I've had sex with people before, why wouldn't I have had sex with this man. In each case, my assertion that I didn't give permission should be honoured, and yet, it's only taken as fact in the first.

I'm with you on this one OP.

As for source of the figures - the Home Office has commissioned extensive research, and the results, plus references to the research, are widely available on government websites (hence OP pointing you to the ONS and Home Office - I'm sure you can google the websites quite easily, Wholly).

The recent spate of collapsed cases has more to do with insufficient resources being given to the police generally so that they don't have the time or personnel resources to follow up and cross check everything they should - not because there's a sudden spike in women lying about these things.

And how telling.

It's common knowledge that both the police and the CPS have failed women who have been raped for decades upon decades by not properly investigating and through bad evidence handling.

We know this. We have campaigns about it. Nothing is done.

Two cases collapse where the same failings in the system adversely affect men and suddenly all cases are to be reviewed.

Where's the review for women?

Where's the review for women?

Oh, oh - I know this one - Theresa may said the police did nothing wrong and she supported their appeal against the victim who had to bring a private prosecution for their miss-handling of the case

I agree lang

I loath the attitude which seems to be prevalent in the media of

Rape case collapses due to lack of evidence ergo female is lying

"And the reason for the low conviction rate (a link to the source of your claimed figures would have been nice)..."

As I think I see the OP advised, you can check those statistics at the sources they named (the ONS and Home Office).

Off the top of my head, the CPS back in 2013 (when still under the auspices of Kier Starmer), released a detailed report and survey with regard to the myth of 'false rape claims'.

One of the reasons you could avail yourself of that particular report is because it identified some important patterns in the approximately 3 - 4% of claims which were falsely made against the accused in those cases - in particular it identified that in many, if not most, of those cases, the accuser would be classed as vulnerable or extremely vulnerable (due to age/gender/sexuality/disability for example), and that in some cases, the accuser was being pressured by a peer or parental figure.

I could go on (and on ) about how badly I think we talk about rape, about how rape is politicised and weaponized (and always at the expense of the victims), and how our calcified understanding of rape is part of the reason for that.

I should also own that I'm a prison abolitionist, but speaking as a victim and survivor of multiple rapes, the reality is that for the vast majority of rape victims, there is no justice right now and precious little hope of any.

That has to change.

I agree OP.

Have signed.

Signed.

It's for a jury to decide if they are 'genuine' rape victims.

No it's not, it's up to a jury to decide if there is enough evidence to convict a man of rape.

Thank-you for your excellent and considered replies. On the page designed to support the petition:

https://m.facebook.com/educatejuries/?ref=bookmarks

I'm receiving numerous unhelpful and ill informed comments. Please feel free to. Is it the page and help correct many of the misconceptions the petition seeks to address.

Many thanks for your support.

PLEASE DO SHARE THE PETITION LINK - WE NEED 10,000 SIGNATURES TO GET A RESPONSE FROM GOVERNMENT!

Sorry - should say *visit my page!

Looking at the YouTube comments under the Nassar victim impact statements I don’t think training in rape myths is enough.

From the idea that “bitches” will do anything for money / attention to the belief that these girls actually enjoyed it, people’s distrust of women is so prevalent it’ll take a complete cultural shift to change the way society views rape victims.

Makes me wonder why there is a crime that is rape within marriage. It's not like the woman has had fully consensual sex before and is in a relationship she legally consented to.

I've signed the petition but I do think you would be better framing the question and ask outright.

And I'm not going to click on the Facebook link. I'm already in trouble regarding Facebook and sharing petitions - one only in the last year.

I will use the link though and hopefully get some more traction. But I warn you, this is not a popular petition unfortunately.

The conviction rate for rape is around 58%, which is in line with other conviction rates, I think.

Sadly thinking something without backing it up with statistics shows a bias. claraschu

It may not be that for rape per se, claraschu
In the following article www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/05/violent-crimes-against-women-in-england-and-wales-rise-by-10-in/that number is quoted but then goes on to say:
"CLARIFICATION: This article reports the finding of the VAWG report that the conviction rate for rape rose in the year 2015-16 to 57.9 per cent of prosecutions brought. We wish to clarify that though these cases were initially flagged as rape, CPS data show that the majority were eventually prosecuted in the principal offence category of 'sexual offences including rape'. A breakdown of outcomes in this category is not available".

OP, you are not doing your cause any favours by bumping every single zombie thread you can find which mentions rape in order to publicise your petition. Yes, I get that you want to do something, but doing this is counter productive, will piss people off, and ultimately lead to your petition links being pulled.

It is particularly out of order to use a support thread by a victim of rape trying to come to terms with what happened to her for the first time ever in order to push this - I have reported that post, and hope that it will be removed.

I have every sympathy with your petition, but you are really not going to bring people with you if you set about it this way.

I'm sure you are sadly thinking about those statistics, but I really meant that if you @claraschu want to make such a statement regarding statistics on the conviction rates regarding rape, then you need to back it up with a convincing link - not a blog or reddit or other such things. Proper funded stats please!

Sorry, I am completely new to Mumsnet and was trying to reach as many likeminded people as I could. Didn’t mean any harm

This is VERY close to my heart. I really hope it's not removed as it in support of one of my closest relatives who is currently suffering from PTSD and major trauma. This support is helping her. Her life is essentially ruined at this current time. Please forgive me for doing this all wrong and please understand with compassion.

if someone confesses to taking my money, I don't have to prove that I didn't give them permission to take it, they have to prove that I did

Why do you say this? I’m not sure that’s right.

I disagree with you about a shifting burden of proof. I was raped and didn’t report it as I knew I wouldn’t get a conviction. I’m very angry that so many men get away with it. But I disagree that the answer is removing the nexus between being sure of guilt imprisoning someone.

The problem is not with conviction rates, which are in line with other criminal conviction rates, if rape cases get to trial. The problem is that such a small number of cases actually get to trial at all. People are confused because the term conviction rates applies to cases in court which actually get a conviction. Once a case gets to court it has a good chance of a conviction.

People wanted statistics: here they are, from the CPS crime report on violence against women and girls:
 The CPS conviction rate in 2015-16 rose to 57.9% from 56.9% in 2014-15.
 Of all unsuccessful outcomes11, the proportion due to jury acquittals has fallen slightly to
61.4% in 2015-16 from 62.7% in 2014-15.

Here is a link to the whole report: www.cps.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/publications/cps_vawg_report_2016.pdf

I think that the petition is good but doesn't address the real problem.
The problem is with all the cases which don't get reported at all or which don't get to court. Actually, the problem is with attitudes to women in our society, so this education should be part of the national curriculum, and should also be somehow forced on the adult population. Maybe it could be part of the process to get a driving licence, a passport, and a marriage licence.