Please sign the petition: No Coalition between the Tories and the DUP **Nearly 400,000 signatures already!

[Livingtothefull]

www.change.org/p/may-out-no-coalition-with-the-d-u-p

I am a bit confused. I thought we had a democratic political system to sort this kind of thing out. You know, we vote for MPs for each constituency and then they decide how to work together if there is no overall majority party. No? It just depends on the more important and knowledgable people signing petitions?

Goodness. I wish someone had told me and I wouldn't have wasted my time going to vote. There was me thinking it meant something.

They decide how they are going to work, but if they decide something that is seriously dangerous and/or contravenes present agreements, then I would have thought it is the duty of any citizen to bring that to their attention. To point out that this is not a good idea. To point out that other Tory leaders have chosen differently.

I was perfectly aware that the entry into the Iraqi war was led by an elected government. I still thought it was dangerous and wrong. So I protested against it. Why do we bother with a free press if we should just accept anything decided by an elected government?

CrossWord gets it! 👏🏻

Yes people who voted tories didn't vote for a coalition with the DUP. That wasn't a voting option as far as I'm aware.

However, you vote for a specific party, and they get the most seats/votes, and the leader of that party makes a decision... you still voted for them! To make those decisions!

Yes, and then you can protest against decisions not in the campaigning manifesto if you think they are wrong or illegal or foolish or whatever.

Dh voted for Tony Blair. And then marched against the Iraq war. Which was never part of the Labour manifesto. Perfectly logical and permissible.

If the people signing this petition were all Tory voters, I'd be a bit more convinced. Somehow I suspect they are not.

Yes, you can sign your petition and protest in any legal way you want. But please don't think that for some reason your views are more important than other people's views as they are not.

It's just 24th June 2016 all over again.

Really? So the Tories who protested against the Iraq war (and I seem to remember there were quite a few of them) were out of order? None of their business? Just jealous?

Hi Everyone,
We'll be moving this thread to 'Petitions and activism' soon.

I don't imagine that my views are more important than other people's views. But we don't know yet what part of the electorate disagree with this unexpected coalition. So it is impossible to estimate the relative importance of the protesters. That may become clearer later on.

So the leader of the party which does not have a majority of votes (albeit they have more than any other single party) get to make a decision that may have grave consequences for us all? So that we have a coalition government that nobody voted for? If our system allows this then the system needs changing, this is not democracy.

I am also old enough to remember the years of tragedy the NI troubles and the tragedy caused. The Good Friday Agreement (which the DUP opposed by the way) was a huge step forward at the time. I absolutely dread the prospect of that being torn up and what it could mean.

Yup, June 24th all over again - has Lily Allen signed it yet 😉

Really? So the Tories who protested against the Iraq war (and I seem to remember there were quite a few of them) were out of order? None of their business? Just jealous?

No, I don't think it is comparable. Most non-Tory voters do not, I think we can safely assume, want the Tories to form a government with anyone. Colour me just the slightest shade skeptical.

You do all realise there are plenty of people who voted Tory who feel exactly the same outrage and fear about some of the people and organisations Jeremy Corbyn is chums with? If he had won, I would have been devastated and frightened, but I would have accepted that that is who people voted in.

Yup, June 24th all over again - has Lily Allen signed it yet

I don't think she's back from her "Tories Out" demo at Downing Street yet

People saying the coalition wasn't voted for don't understand how the British electoral system works. You vote for your local candidate. If they are part of a political party and not an independent, you're also voting for their party to be in government.

The party that wins the most seats gets the first chance to form a government. If they don't have a majority alone, they can form a coalition with another party. They are unlikely to choose the second largest party because:

• They wouldn't want a coalition partner with that much power - fewer seats is better (but they would still want a workable majority).
• That would leave the country with no real opposition, which would be hugely unpopular with the public.
• The two largest parties are unlikely to have overlapping goals and policies. Better to find a coalition partner with similar policies (this is why the Tory/Lib Dem coalition was so weird).

If you vote for someone in a political party, you are also voting for the leader of that party to form a coalition should that scenario arise.

The Tories have done the logical thing at first glance. The DUP are right wing and have policies that are closer to the Tories than, say, the Lib Dems. They have a suitable number of seats. They generally vote with the Tories anyway.

It is horrific for NI, it violates the GFA. These are valid reasons to oppose the coalition. I'm in NI and I am Not Happy.

But please don't say no one voted for it. Everyone who voted Tory or DUP did, whether they had considered the possibility or not. That's how the system works.

"You do all realise there are plenty of people who voted Tory who feel exactly the same outrage and fear about some of the people and organisations Jeremy Corbyn is chums with? If he had won, I would have been devastated and frightened, but I would have accepted that that is who people voted in."

Are you talking about "he's chums with" or "is planning to form a coalition government with"? Because, as we keep repeating, there is a big difference here. I am not worried about Theresa May's personal friendships. I am worried about the fact that she is letting her position as PM and the actual decision-making process become dependent on DUP.

The GFA as far as I can see, does not contain any clause about who individual representatives of the British government may be friends with. But it is very specific about the fact that the actual governing process must be rigorously impartial. Which is hardly compatible with the PM doing advance mutual support deals with one of the two sides.

Fair point, Liv. But the way the process works is also that the electorate have the right to use other democratic means of telling a leading party when they feel that a certain coalition, or any other ruling measure, is a seriously bad idea. And it looks like that is exactly what they are doing.

I still think John Major was very wise not to let himself into this situation.

Iain Dale on Twitter replying to Angela Eagle

Angela Eagle@angelaeagle

Toxic Tory Party does #DUPdeal ugh #GE2017

Iain Dale@IainDale

I'm not keen on this either but Tony Blair & Gordon Brown both did deals with the DUP to get their legislation through. Needs must, eh?

Interesting

cory I didn't literally mean who JC is chums with. I meant people and organisations which he, and the Labour party too, has political links with which would effect the way they ran the country if in power.

Oh absolutely cory. The right to disagree with the government (or someone trying to form one) is fundamental. We can disagree with elected officials, whether or not we voted for them, and it is important that we do so.

cory, I don't think there will be any problems under the Good Friday Agreement - have a look at various comments on line and from NI lawyers eg see www.reddit.com/r/northernireland/comments/6geio1/politics_help_would_a_conservativedup_coalition/

Signed