Please sign this petition regarding when summer-born children start school [headline edited by MNHQ]

[Sootball]

Yes I'm posting for traffic. But this is important. It really is. Because very few people know that the UK government are currently consulting on whether to change the guidance for allowing summer born children to defer a year.

And yes I know many start school at 4 and are ready, they have no problems, that they are the top set. But the research evidence does now show that socially and emotionally the summer born effect lasts for some into adulthood. This is simply about allowing those children who are NOT ready for school, whose self esteem and confidence will be impacted to wait a year.

If you care or have faced this issue then please can I ask you to take a moment and respond using this link >www.gov.uk/government/consultations/changes-to-the-school-admissions-code

Even if you are not sure what to write I have been advised in a box 5 the following will suffice Parents who wish their summer born (April 1st – August 31st inclusive) child to enter Reception class at compulsory school age must submit an application for the relevant academic year. The application must be treated equitably with children starting school prior to compulsory school age, and the child can remain with that year group cohort for the remainder of their education.

AND THANK YOU

And what's the phrase used here a lot? Something about anecdotal evidence?

Where I live, you are allowed to defer for a year quite easily.

At first I thought it was a great idea. Now I think it's madness. There are children in the same class as each other who are a whole year older than others and in the majority of cases two years as classes are two year levels in most schools.

A lot of people here are missing the point about the age at which they start school. It's about readiness for school and that then has a long term knock on effect on things like social skills, self esteem, seeing school as a safe place, etc.

My 5 year old started a few weeks ago - we delayed because I knew they weren't ready (and it's a very hard battle to fight to get permission to do this) That extra year in nursery has made all the difference - had they gone to school this time last year, we would probably now be looking at a whole range of behavioural issues, even if they managed to make it to school. It's not about wanting your child to be top of the class or to get another try at getting a place in a good school (although I accept that this could be an issue for a minority) It's about wanting your child to have a fighting chance at school and not setting them up to fail.

As parents, we know our children best - why would a faceless figure at the LEA know what is best for my child when they've never met them? I have no doubt at all that we made the correct decision to delay. If your child doesn't need it, it wouldn't even cross your mind to apply for delayed entry (as it didn't with our older DC, who are in their chronological age group at school)

Regardless of your feelings about summer borns, you may wish to comment on the draft proposals as there are a number of other issues being discussed too. These include giving priority in reception admissions to those eligible for pupil premium who have attended a nursery attached to the school they are applying for. This issue will probably have more of an impact on school admissions than whether the odd 5 year old wants to enter the Reception cohort, especially where catchment areas are currently very small.

As Primifacie says, in the US the endless growth of "redshirting" has raised some serious questions about impact on poor families.

My daughter will be the youngest in her year in Japanese school (we start in April), if we decide to do Japanese school rather than an international school. I think it's okay.

I think the youngest-in-the-year problem tends to be worse in UK schools because of the obsession with putting children into different ability groups right from the start--younger students tend to get plonked into "low ability" groups and then are left there, to trail further and further behind the others.

In Japan the whole class is taught as one class, and younger/weaker students are given more support to help them catch up, including getting parents to do a little extra work with them. I think this is better.

I think redshirting is fine in special cases--for example, when you have a student who is the youngest in the class AND seems immature or seems to have some kind SEN or whatever, making a careful decision to redshirt can be in the best interests of all concerned. But this should be an occasional one-off decision, IMO, not something that anyone can just choose to do.

What about children with sen? They could end up either being the much youngest in their class or remaining in nursery provision which doesn't meet their needs.

They will be starting Year R a year later so finishing Year 11 ( year they usually turn sixteen) a year later, what's to stop them leaving at the end of Year 10?

The school leaving age for a child going in to reception now will be 18 and there is an official school leaving date set in June, you cannot leave school before then.

There should be a lot more flexibility in school starting, some kids are ready at 4 some would benefit from not starting until later. A lot would benefit from having a Scandinavian play based curriculum for a year or two where the emphasis is on learning social skills not how to write.

I think we should have grades instead of years and allow children to move up or down a grade depending on circumstances.

Many years ago, no idea if this still happens, the school my cousins in Australia attended had 'mixed classes' these did the work of 2 grades in one year and were a mixture of kids who needed to repeat a year for whatever reasons and those who were being accelerated through the system.

Not saying that is how it should be just that it might be worth looking at other things than just being the youngest.

Another mother of an august-born saying this is a bad idea - it will make the problem worse as many people have already said by increasing the age gap between oldest and youngest.

Any system which looks at whether a child is 'ready' for school is going to fail those with special needs.

If I was in charge, what I would do would be to make all schools with a PAN of 60 or more split their cohorts into classes by birth month so that there would only be a six month age gap in schools with 2 classes per yeargroup, and only 4 months in schools of 3 classes per year group.

Just doing that would help a bit, but to make it even better I would also like to find a way to structure the school year differently for the youngest class so that they could all postpone starting till after Christmas - but they would then need to claw back a week at a time from each school holiday to ensure they got the same duration of education as the older pupils and its thinking through how to make that function properly that I haven't worked out yet.

I'm glad that Ds1 is a winter baby. His speech is delayed, and he wouldn't be socially ready to start school shortly after his fourth birthday. For me, being socially ready is more important for getting the full benefits from school.

It's early days with DS 2, but socially and verbally, he's much more advanced than DS 1 was. He would fall within the date range suggested, but I'd be happier for him to start school younger than his brother based on his ability to cope.

I'm surprised we haven't had comments regarding the Scottish or Irish systems yet.

My ILs are in Ireland where it's more flexible. Some of my DNs have started young because their parents felt they were ready. Choice to make better decisions for your children is a good thing.

Does the research show whether it's absolute age, or age relative to peers that puts summer born children at a disadvantage?

• If it's absolute age at school starting age that puts summer born children at a disadvantage, they should just sihift the cut off date for all children

• If it's age relative to peers that is the disadvantage then this does nothing to eliminate the problem, but just shifts it to the March children.

The school leaving age for a child going in to reception now will be 18 and there is an official school leaving date set in June, you cannot leave school before then.

^^ That isn't exactly true

www.gov.uk/know-when-you-can-leave-school

England
In England, your leaving age depends on when you were born. You can leave school on the last Friday in June as long as you’ll be 16 by the end of that year’s summer holidays.

You must stay in some form of education or training until your 18th birthday if you were born on or after 1 September 1997.

Your options are:

full-time education - eg at a school or college
an apprenticeship or traineeship
part-time education or training - as well as being employed, self-employed or volunteering for 20 hours or more a week
Scotland
In Scotland, if you turn 16 between 1 March and 30 September you can leave school after 31 May of that year.

If you turn 16 between 1 October and the end of February you can leave at the start of the Christmas holidays in that school year.

Wales
In Wales, you can leave school on the last Friday in June, as long as you’ll be 16 by the end of that school year’s summer holidays.

Northern Ireland
In Northern Ireland, if you turn 16 during the school year (between 1 September and 1 July) you can leave school after 30 June.

If you turn 16 between 2 July and 31 August you can’t leave school until 30 June the following year.

Who assess whether a 4yo is ready for school or not? I can see lots of mothers who cant cut apron strings hanging on to their child for as long as possibly and those who need to get back out to work or view school as some form of childcare just throwing their off spring through the door.

So who is assessing?

This will not help children with signficant long term sen. They need early intervention not their parents being told it will be better to wait a year because by then they may have caught up /be ready.

I deferred my dd who is now 14. We're in Scotland where deferal is allowed.

At 4 she was bright but socially and emotionally she needed time to mature. She went to school much more confident than the previous year. Her friends who are younger in the year even know struggle with change and difficulties similar to what myself and my dh struggled with being Decemeber born.

Usually the nursery staff here will bring it up with parents and then they have meetings etc.

If Autumn term birthday's want to defer, there has to be a lot of evidence to support why they should be deferred.

"
If Autumn term birthday's want to defer, there has to be a lot of evidence to support why they should be deferred."

Sorry but that is not true.

I deferred my Novemeber born son ( also in Scotland).

It's the nursery funding that may be an issue, not the deferrement itself- that's the easy part.

Not all summer born children struggle with education. Dd is an august baby. She was always in the top set for everything and was the smartest kid in her class by far.

Combust22 it depends on the council. I know friends who have easily deferred Nov/Dec birthdays in other parts of the country. But ours has clamped down after a number of heads told the nursery staff to "defer from September as we have far too many in Catchment this year!"

I work in nursery and often contribute to the deferal reports so I know it does happen here!

It appears to work well in Scotland. Many of my friends with autumn born Childern and all but 1 with a Jan/Feb birthday have deferred. They have no regrets.

OP, I apologise if I came across as making light of the struggle you faced to secure a deferred entry for your child, and in a case such as yours where there would be clear disadvantage to a child starting school at 4, I agree that it should be easier to defer entry.

Maybe that's what needs to change, rather than making deferred entry an automatic right for all parents, it could be made easier for parents in particular circumstances to defer. If we allow it as an option to everyone, people will take advantage, particularly in selective areas.

I also can't see why children who receive pupil premium should be given priority on admission, the current tool used to decide who is deserving of the pupil premium is already ridiculously blunt, and I can see many problems with allowing that as well.

weird - but it is not always to do with "smartness"

Emotional maturity is just as important.

groovee- i didn't involve the nursery with my son's deferral- I knew they were not advocates of deferement so I didn't even speak to them about it.
You don't need nursery permission to defer.

Equally, there is a boy in his year who is a September child, so just one week short of a year older than my DS. He has had problems in that he is bright and advanced, and feels bored in his year group.

I have two mid September borns, they were not the only ones in the class, by a long way. My DS is 13th and was the second oldest, but there at least 5 September borns and a few october and novembers.
My DD is 18th and was the 5th oldest in her class. Both DCs bright and advanced for their age (did go on to be top sets in secondary) but by the law of averages there will be at least 2 or 3 september borns in any one primary class. Being a bright september born is no excuse for bad behaviour.
Summer borns may have the disadvantage starting school, but i found that year 6 was a problem for my very mature september borns, they werent bored academically but they were more than ready for the challenges of moving up to secondary school, with all the independence that brings.

Another problem I have come across from seeing this in action is the guilt. Its definitely seen as 'the right thing to do' to hold them back and it's frowned upon to not hold them back.

Making the decision can be hard for some people and I've a friend who is wracked with guilt as her 10 year old is doing fine academically but not socially. She is always wondering if he would have been better if she had held him back.

Some people can't afford to hold them back. Six years off work or of childcare fees.

I think that the people who do hold them back have no regrets. Their dc are a year or two years older than their classmates. The problems are for those who don't hold them back.

There are dc in my oldest dd's class who are 12 and she is 10. It's quite a big difference.