To ask if you agree with term time holidays to please sign this petition...

[TermTimeHolidays]

here

It needs 100,000 signatures before it can be discussed in parliament.

Allowing term time holidays would really rub it in the face of those kids who cannot afford holidays at any time of the year. Just imagine the kids who are unable to holiday having to put up with a year round succession of tanned kids returning from their holidays.

...and what about all the kids who can never go on holidays for other reasons such as their parents being carers for elderly grandparents or kids that cant travel for medical reaons etc etc.

How are you going to make it fair for them?

Runningchick123 in a capitalist economy if one wants to provide the best opportunities and experiences for their children it could be argued that the parents have an obligation to try and earn more. We live in a global and competitive world where a basic educational experience in a basic state school may not provide all children with the necessary skills and knowledge to compete. It has been proven time and again that what makes a really significant difference is parental input and extra curricular opportunities to learn. Plus of course every child has a right to expect some semblance of a good and happy childhood.

So if it is the case that parents as individual units are totally 100% responsible for both the outcome of their own lives and what advantages they can buy for their child, it would follow that parents of modest means should assert themselves to provide as much as they possible can. Including but not limited to saving money and buying a/the best holiday they can afford for their children at a time when it can be afforded. That may mean finding the best deals......which are of course during school terms.

It is as always, each to their own. What I would like to point out is, that life is not always a bed of roses for everybody. Aside from cost there are a number of other reasons why people can not and do not holiday out of term-time. The list is endless, small businesses, tourist industry, child care, continental shift patterns with 18 days off in rotation, forces, NHS and so on. Aside from that parents who are ill, children with special educational needs, families with parents and family in foreign places. The examples I have heard that are not necessarily covered by the exceptional circumstances are endless.

There is the fact as well, that there is no evidence to suggest that family holidays are related to poor or lower attainment, particularly at KS2. Absence? yes, but if you do your research, you will see that is down to deprivation, poverty, unemployment, exclusions and truancy and so on.

I did not realise we lived in a society, where people have so little consideration for people less fortunate, whether that be financially, health reasons, working patterns, and the general diverse nature of our population.

I find it sad that people say, just go on holiday in school holidays, it shows a total lack of understanding for people's individual circumstances. The law as it stood before this change, tended, though some schools took a stricter line, which is a separate issue, to account for the reasons and was reasonable. Now it is not.

I hope to God, that you people spouting about never take your children out of school, do not go through some of the life experiences that i have had, whilst my child was young that have meant i have had to take him out of school.

What baffles me more, is, if you all thought the law prior to the change was so wrong, why you did not campaign to have it changed?

People, show some compassion, instead of being so judgmental. It is not all black and white. The law before was reasonable. Now it is not. If you choose, or do not have to take your child out of school you remain unaffected either way, so why would you want to make life more difficult for those who have to or need to. Don't understand.

yeahwhat

so how do you make every other part of life fair for these children?

Do you stop school trips and prom so no child misses out and every child misses out instead?

"Just imagine the kids who are unable to holiday having to put up with a year round succession of tanned kids returning from their holidays"

I am a responsible parent.

I slather my child in factor 50 during his term-time holiday, so no sun tan.

I have happily signed this.

I had a great education and did very well at school, University etc. My parents took me out of school for 10 days every year (due to the overpriced holiday season). We had some great adventures and experiences which I gained so much from and will remember for the rest of my life.

I hope I can do the same for my young family.

marmaladeTWATkins and Ivy

I am playing devils advocate. I don't think making things 'fair' for poor students by allowing term time holidays is a valid argument for allowing them as it would make it even worse for those children who can never take holidays.

If one (youngish) kid is out of shool for a week for a holiday everyone will know about it tan or no tan.

If you want to take a holidays in term time because that's what suits you then fair enough but don't dress it up that its done out of 'fairness' to all.

I know that some people have genuine reasons for term time holidays and I think exemptions do need to be made on occassion

hmm looking at the weather today i doubt we will be getting a tan on our holiday...just loading the car. my children will have a great time relaxing with their dad tho and dp will be able to properly wind down and relax away from work and hopefully switch off from some of the horrific stuff he hears and deals with on a daily basis. thankfully our ht has taken a common sense approach and realises that dps job makes family life very restricted and the added stresses of our summer (injury to one child resulted in total bedrest and not being able to leave the house for weeks) means we all need a break, he wished us a good holiday and was supportive of us going. so whitby here we come!

OMG she emphaised the Twat part of my username ohmigodohmigod I am DEVASTATED.

Oh dear! Lol

He TWAT part just jumps out at me.

I feel the same about you, even though you don't have twat in your username!!! Crazy!!!!

Fair enough .

So because my dd will be able to go on holiday anytime and come back with a lovely tan to show her friends, she shouldn't be allowed to H.ed then, following the unfair argument.
Because some dc can't have a holiday, others shouldn't be allowed. What a ridiculous argument.

5madthings hope you all have a lovely time.

"The respect of parent's freedom to educate their children according to their vision of what education should be has been part of international human rights standards since their very emergence." (The Special Rapporteur to the United Nations Commission on Human Rights 8th April 1999)

It is the parents responsibility to ensure their child receives an education, not Mr Gove's or any individual school. Schools are able to close at a whim for training and snow days and of course for strikes. This means that the parent that sub-contracts the requirement to provide the education to the school fails to adhere to the legal responsibility to provide "a full time, efficient education......" if the school fails in its duty to provide the same. Of course it can also be argued that parents who sub-contract all aspects of the child's education to the school, break the law on account of the parent failing to "provide an education suited to (the needs of) the child" where the school is unable to facilitate the provision of extra care/tuition for special needs/special talents or interests, or simply fails in its teaching of basic things such as division, should that child need that skill.

1834 the Lord Chancellor was asked "Do you consider that a compulsory education would be justified, either on principles of public utility or expediency?" to which he replied "I am decidedly of opinion that it is justifiable on neither; but, above all, I should regard anything of the kind as utterly destructive of the end it has in view. Suppose the people of England were taught to bear it, and to be forced to educate their children by means of penalties, education would be made absolutely hateful in their eyes, and would speedily cease to be endured"

Is it even possible to educate people, children included against their will? I would have said no. Do we need children to sit in every lesson when some children are clearly not well catered for, when they may work beyond the NC or when others will simply never learn division but would benefit from life skills, skiing, pyramids or just time to dig up sand.

I would love to see these fines challenged on the basis that they break with the human rights act and the provision of the education act which gives parents legal responsibility.

Ask yourselves the real reason that the provision under the act hasn't changed? I believe that to remove legal responsibility from parents and place it either with the secretary of state or individual school would allow parents and pupils to sue when they fail to provide the "full time, efficient education suited to the child"

Mini - I don't think that arguing that the schools disrupt pupils' educations with strikes, snow days etc is a good reason for disrupting their education even more by taking them out - it is not an either/or situation. Taking them out of school for a holiday will not stop the other disruptions happening, it will just add to them.

That said, I absolutely agree with the point I think you are making in the rest of your post. Education should not be a 'one-size-fits-all' thing - it should be about finding each child's abilities and skills and enabling them to make the most of those skills. The academic basics are important, but not every child is academically inclined - many have artistic or practical skills - and our society, and in particular our education system, tells these children that their skills and abilities aren't worthwhile because they are not academic - they are made to feel a sense of failure because they don't fit the academic mould.

I may get flamed for this, but I hope not. I see nothing wrong with saying that university and academe are not right for every child. If someone's abilities lie in mechanics or caring or construction, I think we should be telling them to pursue those skills, make the most of them, build a career out of them - and if that means not going to university, then they shouldn't go. We should provide the training and education that is right for them, and a degree is not the be-all and end-all. They should get the qualifications and training best suited to them.

std your bang on about uni not bring for every one. And we need to cater to those children who don't fit the 'norm' and help them carve out there own path.
Education for me isn't about A,B,C ect it's about growing young minds and showing our kids what they are capable of.
Any way that's another thread!

Basically teachers have their work cut out as it is.

Anyone making their job harder, which of course impinges on the learning of the whole class, is a pain. Children who cannot sit still, children who constantly demand the teacher's attention, children who misbehave, children who are off and then need the teacher to give extra time to them alone to bring them back up to speed - all are detrimental to the whole classes learning. Though I am not talking about SN here as, by rights any child with SN should be catered for anyway.

So if you are a parent who always brings your child to school late, thus causing disruption (another thread) or one who takes your child out of school fir hols so that your child has to be aided to cover missed work, you are reducing the time left for the rest of the class. And are a pia to everyone else.

If however you take your child out of class during term time and absolutely ensure that this has caused no disruption to the class or extra work for the teacher in any way, then that is fine.

STDG

You are so right. I can remember our eldest when asked what he had done at school said "nothing much" and went on to describe in great detail how some builders had built a wall etc. So dh said "what were the other dc doing"? His reply was "oh maths n stuff".
He didn't really get school much, but did get about 11 GCSE's all C's and went to Uni, not a grand one but he did what he wanted, bless.
I never took our older ones out of school for hols, but I support all those who need/ want to and have signed. It doesn't affect us neither, but why stop other peoples fun?

I still don't feel I can sign the petition as it is, but would sign one asking for Headteachers to be allowed to use their discretion about term time holidays.

i have two children in year 5 and 6 of primary school. my children have ADHD and ASD and are both medicated three times a day. we go to the same place for one week every year as the boys need the familiarity.this means they miss 5 days of school. we always go between september and late october. the holiday resort ( in the uk) we go to has a capacity of 9000 people and during school holidays they are full to the brim however when we go there are around 3-4000. my children cannot cope with too many people and can become very agitated and at times aggressive. one of my boys actually struggles with this much more than the other and we do still have a few problems even when it is this quiet! my holiday costs around £2,800 inc spends for six of us (my parents come for extra support) so i would love to say it saves money but it really dosen't in our case. the reason we go on such an expensive holiday???...SAFETY my children are very vulnerable and this resort is swarming with security and safety staff who's skills we usually have to call upon at least once or twice! people's circumstances are too diverse for there to be a rule of 'no holidays during term time or else..' i will be taking my boys away as it is the only time i can enjoy my family as i work all year...even xmas day!!!! i have been informed by the school principle today that i will be fined... i will see them in court! i feel i have been left with no choice but to remove my boys and home school them. i am aware this will be a massive undertaking however i cant stress enough the heartbreak it will cause us all if we cannot have our week together. the sooner this government gets a clue the better!!!

I just got an email, Parliament to debate the issue in part next week, here is part of the msg going round to drum up support. Sadly not MNrs favourite MP, but you can put that aside if you want.

"Please email your MP, asking them to turn up and telling them your reasons for wanting the changes to the school attendance policy reversed.

John Hemming MP has managed to get a Backbench debate in Parliament next Monday - 24th Feb - at 4.30pm.

Technically the debate is about the travel industry charging more in holiday times because despite the 203,000 signatures on this petition, John couldn't get cross party support for a debate on whether it's fine for parents to use our own discretion as to when its OK to take our kids out of school.

So now the challenge is to make sure that the debate is well-attended and relevant to what we want: the reversal of the change to school attendance policy.

But most of all, we need MPs to turn up! Backbench business debates often have very few attendees. The more MPs who turn up, the more seriously the issue will be taken. For that, we need your help.

We've sent MPs a briefing document but it will only get read if MPs think they need to go to the debate and they will only do that if their constituents tell them to.

So please, email your MP now, ask them to attend the debate and tell him or her your reasons for wanting the changes reversed. It is your individual stories which bring these to life and give MPs a wider understanding of what the rules mean in real life.

If you don't know who your MP is or their email address, you can find out here and putting in your postcode.