How do you say patent?

[Paranteser]

I need to give a speech and getting in doubt! Is it pay-tint or pat-int (short a as in pat or ay like in pay). Help!

Nb I've said several times, paytent or pattent, it's like tomayto tomahto, I'm not saying either is wrong. But it's just not logical to use one for leather patents and the other for all other patents (dishwasher, etc). It just tells me that the speaker doesn't realise they're both the same sort of patents.

"Language changes you numpty" is just not convincing enough for such a strange rule.

It is very often mispronounced. I have spent 34 years telling lay people that it is pat-int and not pay-tent (“that’s for shoes”). It isn’t a silly question at all.

My husband's a patent attorney and I get to answer his phone for him on Mondays. 90% of his clients say pay-tnt. 100% of his professional peers say pat-tnt. I have been known to say "oh, you mean a pat-tnt". I thought working in the business I knew that I was right, but now I'm not so sure...

This is pedants' corner where we enquire into the reasons for things, share information and friendly debate. Not just hurl insults and mocking gifs and use non-arguments like "trust me I'm a doctor". At least that's how it used to be.

My other most frequent correction for lay people is that judges bang gavels in England “no, that’s auctioneers”.
And that there is no such thing as a common law marriage in this jurisdiction.
All understandable mistakes lay people make.

I’ve been in the field for 20 years now and to be honest, it doesn’t matter. If you met a patent attorney and referred to it as ‘pay-tent’ they’d correct you.

I believe the "paytent" pronunciation is American English.

Dictionaries typically reflect usage. So, because idiots misuse the word ‘literally’, dictionaries now include definitions reflecting this misuse.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/literally

language evolves, but not all mutations are beneficial.

I don't think this is a matter of idiots misusing the word, more that due to increased international cooperation on patent laws the word has been Americanised in the industry.

@ErrolTheDragon , I could literally explode.
There decimating the language and I can't bare it.

Except about 6 people in the industry have told you it isn’t. It is universally pronounced pat-ent here.

So the American pronunciation is not (also) pat-ent...?

Well. by now I make three different sounds for patent, paytent and pahtent.

This is the conclusion I’ve drawn from this thread. Such a shame so many English pronunciations are getting lost over time. I notice my children use so many American pronunciations and words and I pick them up on it every time and say please don’t let our country’s pronunciations and words die! They look at me like I’m crazy 🤪

If you say Pa as in “pat” then you sound American

if you say “Pay-tent” then you sound English

Oh god me too!

My protein obsessed teen keeps asking if we can buy more “ground beef” - ITS MINCE BOY! MINCE!!!

@upinaballoon , paht is 'pat'.

Nope. If you're English and say Pay-tent you sound wrong.

As I mentioned further up, I worked very closely with the UK Patent Office during one of my first working roles. Literally all I did in my job was receive patents, file them, take new ones to the Patent Office. Everyone who has worked in the profession in the UK knows it's pa-tent.

According to the OED, patent comes from the Latin patere. Surely no one is going to try and argue that this would be pronounced in any other way than with a short 'a' sound?

Pay-tent

That really doesn't follow, as latent comes from latere, and I'm sure no one is arguing latent is pronounced lattent?

Anyway, that's just not how etymology generally works. We don't pronounce English words the same as their Latin roots

I have always said pay-tent in all circumstances, but I am willing to admit that that might actually be wrong!

I don’t actually think either is wrong so I’ll personally continue to use pay-tent. I think the pat-ent pronunciation is perhaps used in the industry due to it being the way it’s pronounced in America and there are more people in America than in England so majority rules.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/english/patent